Schooling the Fools

[Larry Pletcher]

Thanks for posting this. It's a great help.

By chance, did you happen to time any of the other ignitions systems; wheel lock, match lock snap hance, miquolet, or have them on hand for modern cartridge guns?

I have not timed any of the types you mentioned. I do have a wheel lock in slow motion. They are reputed to be faster than a flint, but I don't think so - based on just this one lock. If I count frames, it appears to be in the ball park with flintlocks. The misleading thing to human senses is that there isn't any movement other than the wheel. The pan just appears to ignite.

(I should point out that just like a frizzen rebounds and a flint **** flexes, the wheel of a wheel lock rebounds as the spring relaxes - maybe 60 degrees in rotation.)

Regards,
Pletch

 

[azmntman]

Would love to see the wheel lock video....have never seen one fire.

 

[Col. Batguano]

If you go on to You Tube and do a search there are several of them there.

Looking up the lock time of various cartridge guns, it seems that they are between 1.5 and 3.5 milliseconds. Roughly 1/10 the time of a percussion gun, and 1/40 that of a flint ignition system.

Dwell time in the barrel for a 3000 fps bullet (assuming constant acceleration, which it is not) and a 24" barrel is around 1.5 milliseconds.

Since we're shooting out of barrels twice as long and projectiles around half as fast, you can add another 6 milliseconds of dwell time for things to go wrong.

The thing that affects group size the most is the consistency of barrel harmonics at the time of bullet exit. That's part of the reason barrel tuners work so well. The best time for a bullet to exit is at the pause in the cycle of either the top or the bottom of the merging of all the wave frequencies that are going on during a firing event.

Read this article for a better description than I can do on the science of barrel harmonics. http://www.varmintal.com/atune.htm

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Here is the link to the slow motion group with the wheel lock:

Link

Here is a link to the whole group. THis includes many locks, priming powders, up side down, etc.

Link

The titles of the videos give you the basic idea and in some cases a way to make comparisons.

(Hope these all work)
Regards,
Pletch

 

[nkbj]

A mass of gas propelled particulates does not pass through a flash hole the same way time after time. That's just the way this creation is. That means that an additional set of variables in pressure are introduced shot to shot.
Do you shoot far enough distances to see a difference?

 

[Larry Pletcher]

A mass of gas propelled particulates does not pass through a flash hole the same way time after time. That's just the way this creation is. That means that an additional set of variables in pressure are introduced shot to shot.
Do you shoot far enough distances to see a difference?

Ya, the vent introduces a whole different can of worms - ah I mean variables. The diameter, internal shape, length of web, external shape, and I expect load compression all make the experimentation more complex. I do have more experimentation planned to look at some of this. I expect that this is a project that doesn't end. I hope not.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[Zonie]

Thank you for the neat videos Pletch.

I too have read the wheel-lock is faster than a flintlock and for that reason it was preferred by target shooters long after the flintlock became widespread.

Your video of the wheel-lock does look to be quite slow. Of course it might just be that particular lock or the type of priming in the pan.

Anyway, I had never seen a wheel-lock light off before. Thanks again. :hatsoff:

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Thank you for the neat videos Pletch.

I too have read the wheel-lock is faster than a flintlock and for that reason it was preferred by target shooters long after the flintlock became widespread.

Your video of the wheel-lock does look to be quite slow. Of course it might just be that particular lock or the type of priming in the pan.

Anyway, I had never seen a wheel-lock light off before. Thanks again. :hatsoff:

I agree that looking at one lock doesn't give a complete picture of wheel locks in general. Other locks may be faster or slower. We just don't know.
In dealing with this lock, I do know that we primed with Swiss Null B for the video and when shooting it on the off hand range at Friendship. Null B was the quickest prime, so we did all locks with it - except when we noted a change for comparison's sake. (It was fun to prime a lock with Null B, ffg, and Cannon grade, just to see the difference.)

When I fired this gun on the offhand line, it felt just like a flint igniting.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Another reason for the theory that wheel locks were faster than flint locks, may stem back to the early days when the first flint muskets with snaphaunces and miquelets were being issued. That speed difference may well have continued into the days of the brown bess. Comparing a wheel lock to a lock of today (with about the best steels and geometry of any flint locks in history) may be an unfair test of that old idea considering the state of flint lock production prior to 1750. Just pointing out that the idea may have been true when it first arose even if not true today.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Hey Zonie,
Did you notice the wheel turning backwards at the end? We made a Sharpy mark on the wheel to help tell when things happened. You can see that mark reverse. Also notice a small puff of gas, smoke, etc just before the end. It shows up about 10 oclock on the wheel.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[Zonie]

Yes, I noticed that.

Those little links in the chain that connects the wheel to the mainspring are getting a real workout.

The "bounce" of the frizzens coming back at the ****/flint show up very nicely in your films too.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Another interesting thing shows up in flint videos when viewed with better playback software. Using software that allows frame-by-frame advance, you can see the neck of the **** flex when it stops.
I didn't see it at first. I was counting frames to determine times. When I got to the last frame, I noticed that the next 2-3 frames, the flint edge was coming back up. Apparently the **** comes to rest on the plate and tumbler stop, but the flint,top jaw,etc has enough inertia built up to keep coming for another coup!e of frames.
After seeing this in one video, I looked at the rest of the flint stuff. The only flintlocks that did not do this were the double throated military locks. It made me think that quality control and hardness may be just as important here just as it is with springs.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Thanks Pletch

Those were cool to watch.

 

[Grumpa]

No argument here. I was simply putting Paul's views into the mix (since he can't). I enjoy these discussions.
If I recall correctly, his thoughts were that, before the hammer hit the cap, the flint would have hit the frizzen, sending the sparks into the pan. I had, however, forgotten Pletch's excellent videos showing otherwise.

Now, I'm going to watch the Wheelock video, and learn something. :thumbsup: