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Scopes in MN during Muzzleloader?

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Smoke Rookie

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What's this I've been hearing about being able to use scopes on your muzzleloader next year during the muzzleloading season? Is this true? I heard that is might happen in one gun shop in Grand Rapids, and then I heard from a co-worker that it's a go. Please, someone tell me it's not true.
Brandon :shake:
 
I hope it's not true, even though I'm a long way from Mn.

With a scoped modern rifle that loads from the muzzle, it sure is hard to figure out what the purpose of a muzzle loading season is.

:curse:

Rat
 
Well fellows it's another case of $$$$ talk I guess. They made it legal to use scoped guns during our ML season 2 years ago I believe. We used to have this honey hole that was called a primitive hunting area only. Bows and ML was all you can deer hunt with.

But since they've started allowing ML with scopes we've had people from all over even from Ohio over here killin' a bunch of deer in there. Where as before they didn't bother with it except during ML season now they're not handicapped at all so they're hunting it during the regular firearms season also.

What with waterproof 209 primers and high powered scopes it just hunting with a modern single shot rifle. No handicap at all really! ::

YMH&OS,
Chuck
 
Whatever happened to the term, "Primitive Weapon Season"? Wisconsin allows low power scopes during the ML season also. You can tell who didnt get a deer during the reg gun season because after the season is over there is a flood of hunters seeking ready-to-go muzzleloaders at the local gander mountain. No one wants flintlocks or traditional style caplocks anymore. All want the super duper scoped inlines. Can only buy inlines locally. At least i can still buy Goex locally.
 
So far, our "after Christmas" season remains, "flintlock, longrifles" only here in Pennsylvania. The bow hunters can be out during this season as well. You have to wonder just how long the inline manufacturers will keep their hands off this season. We pretty much have the woods to ourselves during these two weeks, and we hope it stays that way!
 
What with waterproof 209 primers and high powered scopes it just hunting with a modern single shot rifle. No handicap at all really! ::

Huntinfool, you summed it up right... Unfortunally out here in Nebraska they too have been allowing 1 X power scopes to hunt with during the muzzleloading season. Biggest crock of bull I've ever seen or heard of!

What a bunch of weak lazy hunters that exist in todays world when it comes to the primitive muzzleloading hunting season.

There are those of us out here/there that will still earn the hunt and pay the price required in time and equipment to hunt traditional.

Then there are those who have no respect for the hunt and care little if nothing at all at what they can achieve as long as they can kill something with their modern technology during a primitive season. I have no respect for those people at all and they are not what primitive muzzleloading season is about, or was ever meant to be about! :curse:
 
Wisconsin does not allow scopes during our muzzleloader season. They may have a "telescopic sight of 1X power or less." This means RED DOTS are legal. This means the old fashon scope with just a lens are legal, but no power. Fiber optics are legal, but all of that is also legal if you wish to put that on your sidelock.

Inlines are legal as are any kind of projectle such as sabots. As for the comment that a modern inline is more accurate then a traditional sidelock, well I would disagree with that. I have three inlines and numerous sidelocks. Any inline I own that is not scoped is no more accurate then my sidelocks. Those that think just because there is a sabot in there that it makes it more accurate, need to shoot more. I have more trouble with sabots acting up out of an inline on the range for accuracy then I ever do with roundball or conicals...

As for the super duper inline with the 209 ignitions.. well I hunted inlines, cap locks, and flintlocks this modern and muzzleloader season. I weather proofed them all the same and treated then all the same. The only rifle that failed to fire was an inline with a 209 ignition. Thanks goodness it was not in a hunting situation. By the time I dig out the de-priming tool (getting them out of some of the inlines with your fingers is near impossible), then get the capper out to put a fresh 209 in the breech (capping a 209 in the breech area without the tool is near impossible), I would not have stood a chance. Not as easy as flicking the #11 off with a thumbnail and putting another on with your fingers like I can do with my sidelocks....

Caplock and flintlock shooters are not really at this disadvantage that they think they are at. If you know how to weather proof your rifle, and you know where and how your rifle shoots, both you and the inlines get one shot. Make it count.
 
I have three inlines and numerous sidelocks.

I have more trouble with sabots acting up out of an inline on the range for accuracy then I ever do with roundball or conicals...

The only rifle that failed to fire was an inline with a 209 ignition.

I guess I'm curious as to WHY you keep yore inlines then, and WHAT do you use'm for??

YMHS
rollingb
 
Well everyone I know who shoots a 209 primer has never had an ignition problem. And I only had it happen once on my flintlock. Last year it rained and sleeted all day and I took every precaution known to man as did my friends we all had to reprime twice before we got her to go boom! All except the fellow with the inline and 209 primer that is. He didn't take any precautions and didn't even try to cover his rifle and it went boom the first try. He was at no more disadvantage than I would be if I took my .308 and loaded it one cartridge at a time!:results:

YMH&OS,
Chuck
 
NO aligning of front and rear sight...
NO setting a double set trigger...
NO spark...
NO singed eyebrow...
NO peering around your cloud of smoke to see your deer drop...
NO FUN !
 
I guess I'm curious as to WHY you keep yore inlines then, and WHAT do you use'm for??

YMHS
rollingb

Why I keep my inlines is because I find them another way for me to enjoy a different aspect of the sport of black powder. I do not strictly shoot inline, flintlock or cap lock. I like anything to do with black powder. I find it a challenge to see how accurate I can get any kind of rifle and believe me, the inlines are no more accurate then the loads you work up for them, same as a sidelock. They are a little more expensive to shoot without question, but that is my cross to bare.

Huntinfool you might have a point, the inline might have a better chance of going off in bad weather. As for the person you were talking about, he was lucky his fired. Mine this year had a finger cot on the muzzle and I kept the breech covered as much as possible from the weather. I stored it in the wood shed that night as well as a .62 caliber smoothbore Renegade cap lock. The next morning as is my custom before hunting in the afternoon, I shoot them off. Well the .62 caplock boomed like always. The 209 inline made a pop and never went off. It did on the second 209 primer, but they will fail. I was surprised.

Just like your flintlocks and your caplocks. Granted they stand a better chance of not failing, but a friend of mine hunts with his old flintlock kentucky rifle all muzzleloader season and never seems to be bothered by weather. Of course when you've hunted as many years as he has with the thing, I guess you know what to do with it. In fact a lot of times I see him with it in a gun sock.

I have been asked numerous times by family and friends why I have such a large collection of black powder rifles and revolvers. As they said, you don't hunt with them all. That's true, but every rifle I own gets a turn on the rifle range at one time or another. And I enjoy shooting every one of them as much as the other.

As for what I use them for...thats easy, hunting and target shooting. I have a scoped inline I shoot during the modern rifle season when I hunt in certain areas of the state or on certain stands where the shots might be extra long. Unlike some, I am not a traditionalist. When I take my rifles out to hunt, I go to fill the freezer as well as enjoy myself. I like hunting with my scoped inline, just as I enjoyed hunting with the T/C Hawkins flintlock this season.

The real advantage of the inlines is cleaning them. You can remove the breech and really be sure everything in there is clean. Granted some igniton advantage is there, but again, if you do your part the others will fire also. Unloading them is another advantage. And they will shoot pellets... if you really think that is an advantage (which I do not). But these people that think an inline rifle is so much more accurate then a traditional rifle, really need to buy an inline and shoot it some. They will learn there is no real advantage until you scope them.

Lets not forget the disadvantages of the inline as well. Crud rings... how many posters do you see asking advise on this VS how many traditonal shooters complain about it. Primer's too hot, primers too strong, sabots too tight, sabots too loose, sabots too expensive, bullets too expensive, which bullet will shoot best out of this rifle, powerbelts (we could start a book there), and the list of shooting supply costs would scare most traditional shooters right out of their possible bags...

:imo: All an inline does is lets the lazy person into the black powder field of hunting and shooting. People who do not have the time or desire to devote to learning the black powder rifles, but still want to hunt that extra week. They do not have to learn the traditions of the old style rifle. They can forsake many of the learning points of weather proofing them up to some point. And it might be easier to work up an acceptable hunting load. The other thing we forget is these extra hunters in the field generate lots of revenue for the state and hunting programs. It also creates a stronger gun lobby for us to protect us and our rights against anti everyone else.

The one thing I don't like to see is catalogs and merchants turning their stores and stocks strictly to the inline rifles. Like I said, I have eight other traditonal rifles not counting extra barrels. I shoot a lot of traditional gear every year. Granted I make a lot of my own projectiles, and patches, lubes, etc. But I do like the idea of buying roundballs at the Wal Mart if I wanted them... well they are not there.

sorry for the rant....
 
Yes it was. I am noticing many hunters hereabouts carrying in-lines during the regular gun season (my area is restricted to shotgun slug or centerfire pistol as the other choices). I see THAT aspect of them as a good sign.

One of the ideas being tossed around by our DEC is an early "Primative Muzzleloader" season to compliment the current muzzleloading season that follows our regular season. I take it this will be flintlock, iron-sights and PRB. The bowhunters aren't real happy about that, however, as it will shorten or share tme with their special season.
 
Just an observation, seems like this thread should be moved out of the Traditional category and into the Modern or General category
:shocking:
 
I only live a stones throw from MN here in Grand Forks, ND. Unfortunately it seems to me there a quite a few close minded individuals on this thread. So you all enjoy shooting black powder in the traditional manner, I can appreciate that from the standpoint of one who ones all traditional firearms, however, what is wrong with trying to get newcomers into this sport. We live in a country where most of the population are city dwellers, seems like there is a tough enough time just getting people to acknowlege hunting as a sport and not as a sin that only backwoods people do. I see lots of new hunters heading into the woods with inlines because they are cheap and don't seem all that intimidating, I've known quite a few people that have switched from inlines to traditional once they got comfortable with the sport. I for one don't mind sharing the land with inline shooters, as long as they are responsible hunters and most of them that I encounter are. If you want to get snobbish about this sport better be prepared to see the day when hunting becomes a sport only for the rich and influential and you all are left out in the cold. And well I'm on the topic here's something else to consider. If you want to start slinging the word inline around as a non-traditional muzzleloader think again. Ever hear about underhammers, they have existed since the flintlock period and quite a few of them were scoped. They were also ignited quite often by centerfire primers. Nothing is new here, it just looks different. I hear the media going the same route just because a semi-auto rifle resembles a machine gun, it just doesn't make it so. Think twice before going on your rampages, the world watches and listens to what you do and say.
 
But these people that think an inline rifle is so much more accurate then a traditional rifle, really need to buy an inline and shoot it some. They will learn there is no real advantage until you scope them.

Excuse me,.... :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull:!!!!

Scopes don't CHANGE the accuracy "potential", extended range "ballistics", or modified centerfire type "ignition", of modern inlines.

Don't pi$$ down my neck and tell me it's rain'n!! :m2c:
 
Just an observation, seems like this thread should be moved out of the Traditional category and into the Modern or General category

I agree... I thought this Forum was for Traditional? None of that modern technology stuff. If you want to talk traditional muzzleloader hunting, hunt traditional muzzleloader!
 
Scopes don't CHANGE the accuracy "potential", extended range "ballistics", or modified centerfire type "ignition", of modern inlines.

I disagree rollingb. A scope does change the accuracy potental of any rifle whether it is modern inline or traditional sidelock. Put a scope on either of them and a small 100 yard distance target suddenly becomes easier to see and crosshairs hold a lot easier for me then the old eyes with iron sights.

As for the extended range ballistics. If you can't see it, you can't shoot it. There again, with a scope I might take a 150 yard shot. With iron sights.. unless I practices that kind of shooting whether it was inline or traditional I would never attempt that. As for trusting a sabot with iron sights at that range... I am not sure I would try it. I never had enough faith in my open sighted inlines to try such a thing.

The ignition is the real difference. The location is center, but that is all there is reference centerfire. Elements can still effect them, unlike some of the modern cartridge rifles. When you say centerfire I think of my 30-30 or 30-06 not my Black Diamond XR. To me they are just a different kind of muzzleloader, just like a flintlock is different then a caplock.

When I get my new 1:28 twist GMB flintlock barrel for my T/C Hawkins flintlock I am sure it will be a great sabot shooter. This might be another discussion. As for this one, you and I disagree.
 
I only live a stones throw from MN here in Grand Forks, ND. Unfortunately it seems to me there a quite a few close minded individuals on this thread. So you all enjoy shooting black powder in the traditional manner, I can appreciate that from the standpoint of one who ones all traditional firearms, however, what is wrong with trying to get newcomers into this sport. We live in a country where most of the population are city dwellers, seems like there is a tough enough time just getting people to acknowlege hunting as a sport and not as a sin that only backwoods people do. I see lots of new hunters heading into the woods with inlines because they are cheap and don't seem all that intimidating, I've known quite a few people that have switched from inlines to traditional once they got comfortable with the sport. I for one don't mind sharing the land with inline shooters, as long as they are responsible hunters and most of them that I encounter are. If you want to get snobbish about this sport better be prepared to see the day when hunting becomes a sport only for the rich and influential and you all are left out in the cold. And well I'm on the topic here's something else to consider. If you want to start slinging the word inline around as a non-traditional muzzleloader think again. Ever hear about underhammers, they have existed since the flintlock period and quite a few of them were scoped. They were also ignited quite often by centerfire primers. Nothing is new here, it just looks different. I hear the media going the same route just because a semi-auto rifle resembles a machine gun, it just doesn't make it so. Think twice before going on your rampages, the world watches and listens to what you do and say.

Alex, if you meant all this to be aimed at me you're way out of line...I commented that this thread should be moved into a more appropriate category, and that's a fact.

If you don't like the way this Forum's administrator has things arranged or categorized, take it up with him privately.
 
"POPPYCOCK",.... "HOGWASH",.... and etc!!.... It's impossible to change the "inherit" potental of a firearm's, accuracy, ballistics, and ignition, simply by add'n a scope!!

..... or are you say'n thet a scoped .50 TC roundball'er has more "potental" accuracy, ballistics, and ignition, than an un-scoped 50BMG???? :crackup: :crackup: :m2c: :bull:

Modern inlines are no more then modified centerfires with potental "ballistics" to justify add'n a SCOPE!!

Like I mentioned earlier,.... "Don't pi$$ down my neck and tell me it's rain'n"!! :nono:

OHHH!!..... and, "why" put a 1:28 sabot barrel on yore flinter, IYO ain't roundballs jest as potentally accurate and have the "same" potental ballistics as sabots???? (or, do you think them jacketed bullets is jest "purty'er"??):crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
 
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