scratch frizzen

[target man]

its my first flintlock introduce so ,,
is it normal dent mark caused buy the flint on the frizzen?
is it caused by the cheap agathe flint?
and or something else???

i know,
i realy need to have real good flints soon ,,

target man

 

[hanshi]

It not so much the fault of the flint as how it is installed. The flint should not strike the frizzen head-on or it will dig gouges like the one in your photo. Set the flint so it will strike the frizzen at around a 60 degrees (+ or -) thus scraping down the frizzen face to produce sparks. Start with the flint bevel up and set it so it is 1/8" or so from the frizzen with the hammer at half cock. You may need to file or stone the face to reduce that gouge.

 

[rich pierce]

+1; for sure the flint is striking too low. I would grind the gouge out. Frizzen may be a little softish but as hanshi says, if you get the flint to slice not peck, you'll be in business.

 

[David W.]

Grind it with a 6" grinding wheel. White, iffin you have one. Take it slowly and don't let it over-heat.

Get some f Rich Pierce's flints, the one's you're using usually aren't worth a tiddly boop!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Cause is flint hitting too low. And probably a very soft frizzen face. As others have said, try bevel up and regrind the frizzen face. But, when that is done you will probably have to reharden the frizzen face to get sparks.
BTW, sawn agate flints are not cheap. A friend was complaining to me he saw them for sale at $17.00 each. My experience with them is excellent. I much prefer over knapped.

 

[target man]

tanks you all

that was crucial infomation
all the thing i might known even befor simply trying my rifle

steel hardenes,
angle of strike
position of the flint,,,,,

i will repolish slowly the frizzen
and fit it all corecly

when i have remouve the flint i discover ,
it was not real leather to hold the flint,,
it was cheap imitation in vinyle,

and i have may tight it, befor try it,,
that have push back and chip the flint

thanks

 

[Rifleman1776]

BTW, I see in the pic your bevel is already up. The flint looks long enough but to hit higher should stick out further. A pic of the frizzen closed and the hammer at half cock would tell us more about your situation.

 

[Many Klatch]

Looks like you need a slightly longer flint that will hit the frizzen higher up. The picture of how your flint sits in the cock will help us a lot. We need to see how it sits at half cock.

Many Klatch

 

[ebiggs1]

Dump the “cheap” cut agate flint immediately. :barf: Try to get hand knapped real flints that are flat as possible. :thumbsup:
Next don't mess with your frizzen while you are learning. :nono: No grinding! :nono: You may take some sand paper and smooth the face up, however. :wink: Get yourself a rather thick piece of leather for a wrap. :thumbsup:
If the frizzen is indeed soft and you mess with it, there won't be any warranty recourse. :hmm:

 

[target man]

BTW, I see in the pic your bevel is already up. The flint looks long enough but to hit higher should stick out further. A pic of the frizzen closed and the hammer at half cock would tell us more about your situation.

that the way it was when i receve it ,

if i revers the face of the flint,
it strike lower but slide as it might,

i could not foward the flint ,it is too short ,
cause the angle of the rear flint ,imposible to hold it corecly

i could only sand the frizzen and lift the flint up a litle ,t'l i have a good new one

for the hardeness of the frizzen
i prefer find a better way than the waranty

it take me two mounth to receved my rifle

tanks
target man

 

[Rifleman1776]

“cheap” cut agate flint

If you know of a source for "cheap" cut agate flints, please let me know. The ones I have seen are expensive, nothing cheap about them. A friend reports seeing them advertised for as high as $17.00 each. :shocked2:
But, even at a high price, considering how very-very long they last the economy can be attractive. Not to mention great sparking and shooting.

 

[Archer 756]

[i track of wolf cut flints are less than $2.00 each. Where and who is $17 per :hmm:

 

[Larry Pletcher]

If you know of a source for "cheap" cut agate flints, please let me know. The ones I have seen are expensive, nothing cheap about them. A friend reports seeing them advertised for as high as $17.00 each. :shocked2:
But, even at a high price, considering how very-very long they last the economy can be attractive. Not to mention great sparking and shooting.

Agate samples are not all alike. I think the sawn "agate" that comes with TCs is actually chert. Good Montana agate sparks very well and is what I think you are refering too. It is 7 on Moh's hardness scale - the same as flint. Agate is translucent instead of opaque like chert. IMHO TC's sawn "chert" is giving good agate a bad name. (Wow, it's been 45 years since my geology classes. I hope I got this right.)

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Rifleman1776]

it's been 45 years since my geology classes. I hope I got this right.)

You didn't.
Chert is flint. No difference. Only reason for different name is to distinguish how they were found in the ground. Chert is embedded. May be huge chunks or whole hills, cliffs, whatever. Flint is in nodules. Usually they are white covered with chalk.
Agate can be very hard. I have some that is notable harder than flint. It makes a superior gunflint.
I don't know what TC sends with it's guns.

 

[justtim]

At $17, they sound more like the man made ceramic flints that were going around some years back and may still be around. (the ones referred to in the post, not the one in the picture)My own experience is the knapped flints last much longer than the cut ones. I can re- knap mine, the cut ones, not so much. I must say, from the pictures, the lock geometry on that thing is all wrong. I don't see how you could get any flint to strike the top of the frizzen. Terrible.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

You didn't.
Chert is flint. No difference. Only reason for different name is to distinguish how they were found in the ground. Chert is embedded. May be huge chunks or whole hills, cliffs, whatever. Flint is in nodules. Usually they are white covered with chalk.
Agate can be very hard. I have some that is notable harder than flint. It makes a superior gunflint.
I don't know what TC sends with it's guns.

I stand corrected. I agree with most of your comment. I went back and researched a bit. Chert is a "family" of silica-rich minerals. My prof called them complex silicates. The group includes flint, as well as jasper, chalcedony, agates, onyx, common chert, and others. Agates are a type of chalcedony. Chert varieties vary in the their location (as you mentioned), the way they were formed, and the trace minerals found in them.

The sawn material that is sold and called sawn agate is IMHO common chert. I still believe that agate is a superior sparker and should be destinguished from the sawn material available from various vendors.

I have not seen the $17 price on any of this. The last I bought was years ago in packs of a dozen. Wish I could buy some more. It had advantages from an experimenters viewpoint because the thickness was the same-- you could replace a piece in a set of trials without introducing a variable. My experience was also that they wore very gradually rather than the edge varying much between trials. They're ignition speeds were as good as flint (in some cases better.)

Regards,
Pletch

 

[rich pierce]

Targetman, seems to me you need to fix that lock as much or more than you need new flints. Only thing I can suggest w/o major forging of the cock to make it taller is to place an extra leather spacer under the flint to make it strike higher on the frizzen. Use as thick a piece of leather as you can and still get the flint clamped down.

 

[ebiggs1]

... “cheap” cut agate flint ...

My use of the word “cheap” refers to the, “...of inferior quality or worth...” definition in the dictionary and not to the actual monetary cost. And I stand by that statement even if Mr. Pletcher, whose opinion I value highly I might add, disagrees with me on this topic. :bow:

 

[StewartLeach]

Target Man:

Your pictures reveal what I have found to be a common, manufacturing-induced lock geometry problem in Lyman/Investarms flintlocks.

Look at the top image in your post with the two sideview lock images. Note that the frizzen cannot come all the way back to close on top of the pan. This in turn means the striking face of the frizzen is more vertical than it should be for best results. The "flint" or whatever rock you use can't get a nice slicing angle of attack on the frizzen face.

I've now doctored two Lyman/Investarms locks with this problem by very carefully stoning away metal at the front of the pan cover part of the frizzen, taking great pains to remove matal slowly and evenly until the rear of the cover sat down evenly on the rear of the pan. The first time I did it- on my own rifle- I used Mrs. Fox old lipstick as a spotting agent. The second time I just sooted it up with a candle. You would be wise to buy or borrrow a spring vise for disassembling and reassembling the frizzen from the lock.

By setting the pan cover down square, you will tilt the face of the frizzen to the rear, allowing a less abrupt strike of stone on steel. Be aware this will void the warranty.

While you have the thing apart, also use very, very fine emery paper or stone to polish the end of the lug on the frizzen that bears on the leaf spring. The frizzen should open with only a mild push.

Alternatively, go to Track Of The Wolf and buy an L & R "RPL" replacement lock.

Good Luck! One of the joys of shooting these nasty, dirty, romantic, contrary rifles is that you get to tinker with 'em!

White Fox, in the People's Republic of Boulder

 

[Larry Pletcher]

E,
Don't worry. I still like flint. I've had great luck with chipped English and French. I like Rich's very much - I have one of my longest strings of shots with Rich's. The high grade cut agate has advantages for experimentation and does spark great. If I can find one i'll send you one to try. Its nothing like the stuff TC and others sell. Besides the quality of the stone, the thickness and the angles are cut differently. I'll see if I still have one in my shooting box.
Regards,
Pletch