Screwed top horn

[kaintuck]

1st thing, I have read and seen how others have done screw top horns......now I have tried...... :surrender:

They are harder than I thought.....I must be going at it the hard way, because I would rather inlet a Steel RR pipe on a rifle than do these!!!

I have awood lathe, vises, drills, and my tap and dies.....so, using these tools, what should my steps???

What I did,
1. Turned the wooden tip blank
2.used the special hole drill bit to true the horn end, and then threaded it.
3.drilled the wooden blank and tapped threads into it.
4. Cussed the abomination as it is truly ugly......

Aaaarrrrrhhhhh"...........
:idunno:

 

[Billnpatti]

Can't believe it turned out to be ugly. How 'bout a photo? hotoSmile:

 

[crockett]

I thought the tops were also made of horn?

 

[kaintuck]

I thought the tops were also made of horn?

I TRIED to turn a horn piece, I had a real thick piece, but could never get it trued enuff to turn.....now tha kat has a new chew toy.....

what types of dark close grained wood can i use????

and no pictures of butt-ugly work will be shown....you folks already think i'm :youcrazy: by likeing Paris Hilton!!!!

 

[Rifleman1776]

what types of dark close grained wood can i use????

You have several options. Ebony would be perfect. However finding properly dried ebony these days is near impossible. If you buy recently imported stuff it WILL crack on you. DAMHIK :cursing:
Other choices would be: lignum vitae, any of the rosewoods, desert ironwood, etc. Personally, I would choose Osage Orange as it is common in America and will darken with time. I like to turn OO for a variety of projects.

 

[omarick1948]

Screw tip horns take a lot of practice sometimes!

That said, wood is probably the worse choice over horn or solid deer/elk/moose antler. I use adjustable dies, so I think it threads a little easier in my experience.

Rick

 

[crockett]

And...we were talking about these a while back and someone said there are special taps/dies to thread wood rather than steel and these should be used on horn. I used the steel and it worked but it also broke out little bits of horn here and there- you don't see it once the tip is screwed in place but I think the wood tread type taps would be better.
BTW- I really like screw tips and think they were the highest artform of the powder horns. The base plugs with them were usually turned and carved and ornate.

 

[newtewsmoke]

what kind of thread did you use?...bolt thread?...size?...TPI? Just curious, thinkin of trying to do one myself.

Scott

 

[crockett]

I'll have to check, I think 7/16 with 20 threads per inch- I got this local horn with a really long solid tip so I used that. When I was done I think a smaller size would have been better.

 

[hawkthrower]

Okay I don't usually chime in but I will on this one.
1/2-13 is the smallest tap and die I have used, mostly for tips I use 5/8- 11. I always use steel taps and I know others that use wood taps, its kinda what you have or are use to. I have done wood, horn and antler. Horn will sometimes chip but using a good lube on the tap will help. Wood can sometimes be worse for chipping. The best luck I have had is with walnut and very hard maple. Antler is sometimes the worst simply because when you turn it down to the diameter you need you are very often into the pith.
with all of the above a good lube is needed. I have used many different types and usually my favorite is whatever I can find quickly. Gun grease, patch lube, leather cream, and oil are just a few of the likely choices.
Making screw tips is a love hate thing. For every one that you get right you will get at least two that are questionable. Then one day they all start turning out pretty good. Its just a question of practice.

Ron

 

[gus13]

And...we were talking about these a while back and someone said there are special taps/dies to thread wood rather than steel and these should be used on horn. I used the steel and it worked but it also broke out little bits of horn here and there- you don't see it once the tip is screwed in place but I think the wood tread type taps would be better.
BTW- I really like screw tips and think they were the highest artform of the powder horns. The base plugs with them were usually turned and carved and ornate.

While Screw-tips have been the elusive "white whale" for me personally, I did have to post simply because crockett gave me this giggle! (no offense meant Crockett! :thumbsup: )

the reason I find it amusing is simply because of that common viewpoint on Screw-tips. When, in truth... screw-tips were more common and easily obtainable than the more intricate engraved horns we consider a Dime a dozen today. I say this simply because, in 1758, General Forbes in a letter to Bouquet stated; " I shall by Tomorrows wagons send up 28 dozen powder Horns to Carlisle to be disposed of as you shall direct, and shall send 20 doz. by the end of the week." and this is after Washington had ordered as many as he could for his V.A. troops!

which says- from just one city- there were either several individuals making the exact same style or that there were several shops making similar styles and all known for equal quality, even today though I have a feeling that mass produced Horns in that timetable wouldn't be able to produce the level of quality in the number requested! It also tells me that these horns were not considered "high-art" but more "standard" horns versus the more personal engraved horns.

 

[omarick1948]

Okay I don't usually chime in but I will on this one.
1/2-13 is the smallest tap and die I have used, mostly for tips I use 5/8- 11. I always use steel taps and I know others that use wood taps, its kinda what you have or are use to. I have done wood, horn and antler. Horn will sometimes chip but using a good lube on the tap will help. Wood can sometimes be worse for chipping. The best luck I have had is with walnut and very hard maple. Antler is sometimes the worst simply because when you turn it down to the diameter you need you are very often into the pith.
with all of the above a good lube is needed. I have used many different types and usually my favorite is whatever I can find quickly. Gun grease, patch lube, leather cream, and oil are just a few of the likely choices.
Making screw tips is a love hate thing. For every one that you get right you will get at least two that are questionable. Then one day they all start turning out pretty good. Its just a question of practice.

Ron

Ditto's all the way around on what Hawkthrower said and I'll add that the wood tap and die's are the worst choice! Lube is one of the keys for threading, but many horns are very soft at the tip and chipping seems to happen! Metal taps and dies used extensively by me! ___ JMHO!

ps ... Stay away from "pithy" antler piece's. Use the solid tines!

Rick

 

[crockett]

Thanks on the lube tip. If I do another I'll use lube, plus I'm going with a smaller tap/die- as I said the one I used was too large IMHO.
On the mass production. I agree. A few years back I spoke to a guy who said there were operations turning out a lot of horns and each workman did a single task- tips, turning plugs, etc. Still, I do like their looks and they usually have a pretty fancy base plug. Things of beauty (to me at least) compared to some mountain man plain jane type powder horns.
On the tips. it is my understanding that the originals had horn tips- you had to find horns with a solid tip. I'd just as soon know for sure so if I do another I have the proper tip material.
Being able to turn out a good screw tip horn is definately on my "learn to do" list. all advise appreciated.

 

[hawkthrower]

Yer right Crockett, most all of them had horn tips. Their are a few examples with wood but not many. The antler tips seem to be more of a southern thing.
I also really like the Penn style screw tips. I never understood why they would be looked down on for being "mass produced ". Believe me after making a few of them I don't think they are all that easy and I am sure that back in the day someone who could do each of the many stages of building one was a valued employee.

 

[crockett]

On the screw tips, if they were mass produced. I've heard that some horns were scraped with glass to smooth out but that was it- a fine inspection will reveal scrape lines. What is the pc finish on a screw tip?
Might as well do it the pc way :hmm:
BTW- I've "polished" some horns until they were like a mirror (toothpaste works well) but then they looked more like cheap plastic than horn so I used a slightly rough paper to dull the finish a bit.

 

[omarick1948]

Many a powder horn was scraped using a piece of glass, but today, many craftsman including myself also like to use furniture woodworking type scrapers. A utility knife blade also works well.__ Big time saver!

Rick

 

[gus13]

crockett, I don't want you to misunderstand my meaning. I was saying that the common perspective (myself included!) looks at screw-tips as "High Art" when in the period it was the opposite (think linen V. Cotton) which I find amusing. That said, I do agree that to my eye, the originals are some of the finest pieces of art you can come across!

Now, as far as completing a project like this, I think a draw knife or a furniture scraper may serve you best. a shard of glass carries waay to many issues - the personal injury actually being the least of them!!if worse comes to worst sandpaper in lessening grits will work, but be VERY time consuming!

Now, if we were to look at it from a historic standpoint (dontcha love it??!! :grin: ) if you were to do a proper YORK county style, you would actually turn the horn itself at the base and the tip to get it even. Now, that is the only confirmed style that I can sate as fact that would do that, but it does make sense considering the "mass production" (NOT a bad thing!!) that was going on in any of the areas.

That said if you are going for a simple "personal" screw-tip horn of no particular style (or even based on a particular style!) then the world is your oyster and do as you see fit! I can assure you it won't be the first -or the last- that I have seen and I can further assure you, I am not a purist so I have no room to complain! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Horn should work best for you - I think its the 5/16(?) tap and die (wood will work - keep it well lubed) scrape sand or even use a dremmel with a drum sander! trust me it works!! :thumbsup: (we won't discuss publicly how I found that out! :rotf: ) Base plug would NORMALY be made of a fruit wood, cherry wanut etc. though pine or even maple were used..... as I said, common vs. What YOU want to do! there is no horn made today that someone didn't wish to have made - or even did make - at the time!

 

[kaintuck]

Osage orange....THE wood for tips!
yehaw!
:bow:

 

[omarick1948]

Horn/sometimes antler is more traditional, but use what ever you like for a contemporary powder horn.

 

[kaintuck]

Horn/sometimes antler is more traditional, but use what ever you like for a contemporary powder horn.

my deer ain't THAT big!.....I need a chunk to start with, and wood is all that I can chuck up in the lathe?????............. :surrender: