SD bison

[ohiosam]

I was reading on line about Bison hunting in Custer State Park. http://gfp.sd.gov/state-parks/directory/custer/hunting/trophy-bison.aspx

Firearms requirement is 2200 ft/lbs of muzzle energy. What traditional muzzleloading equipment would you need to meet that requirement?

 

[Skylinewatcher]

I didn't know you could hunt bison. Man, I'd like to get in on some of that. I'd reckon some of the large cal rifles would come close, about 3 ft away, but for hunting ranges I wouldn't know. Sounds like they're making the rules for modern rifles only.

 

[BillinOregon]

The Lyman no. 577611 .58 minie at 1400 fps will get you 2306 foot pounds, according to my old Lyman BP handbook. This velocity is no sweat for a Pedersoli Kodiak double rifle, and could probably be achieved in a Zouave. You'd have to get to 2100 fps to get just over 2200 foot-pounds with a .535 ball, which might be tougher to achieve safely.

 

[Skylinewatcher]

At what yardage?

 

[BillinOregon]

Skyline: Those are the values at the muzzle.

 

[Skylinewatcher]

Yeah, thats what I was thinking. I was wondering why they are so worried with the muzzle energy, when you would think they would worry about the down range energy at say 50 yards to take him down clean. Thats a pretty good size animal from what I know of them, which ain't much.

 

[Skylinewatcher]

Link would not work the first time, but it did the second. I would call them and verify that I could use a ML before I paid my beaver. I believe they are just wanting modern rifles that hold much of that energy down range.

 

[ohiosam]

I didn't know you could hunt bison. Man, I'd like to get in on some of that. I'd reckon some of the large cal rifles would come close, about 3 ft away, but for hunting ranges I wouldn't know. Sounds like they're making the rules for modern rifles only.

It is one of the few places you can hunt free range bison. A friend went this fall, using modern ML equipment. The hunt and shot isn't much of a challenge, seems like using a tradition ML or a single shot BPCR would be the way to make it an experience.

 

[Lonegun1894]

Per my balistic calculator, a .575 ball weighing 285 grs, moving at 1875fps develops 2201 ft/lbs at the muzzle, and would therefore qualify. It would take a much heavier load than what I usually use to get there though. just for fun, here's the data for .50 and .54 RBs too (not exact weights for pure lead).


--.530 230 gr at 2080 fps is good for 2210ft/lbs

--.490 at 180 grs would have to be moving at 2350fps to develop 2207 ft/lbs at the muzzle.

Now for the loads required to achieve this, going by my Lyman manual--since I dont load anywhere near these levels...

.58 cal-- Manual's highest shown velocity was out of a 24" barrell, even though they tested longer ones also,falls a little short as it is "only" 1809fps, but took Lyman 190 grs of Goex FF to get there.

.54 cal--the only barrel lenght that made the required velocity of 2080 fps or above, was a 43" that developed 2113fps with 140grs of Goex FFF, with the heaviest loading shown being 160 grs that developed 2158 fps.

.50 cal--the only load shown that meets or exceeds the 2350 fps required was fired out of a 43" barrel, and was launched with 170 grs of Goex FFF for 2354 fps.

Just as a comparison, a .30 180 gr bullet, such as fired out of a .30-06, also meets this requirement at 2350fps, which most would consider a light load, so I would have to agree with Skylinewatcher in that the rules are very skewed in favor of modern equipment.

I am not suggesting anyone try these loads, just showing them what it would take to get there, at least per the Lyman book and my calculator. Since the OP stated that the requirement was measured my Muzzle Energy, the hunting ranges comment in the second post shouldn't be used against you if you chose to try this hunt. But if anyone actually loads like this to get these type of energy levels out of their rifles, well, you're more of a man than I am as those loads are quite a bit heavier than I load my guns. We all know that the deer loads we use are much lighter. Even the common elk/moose loads that have been posted dont usually approach these velocities, and they all seem to work very well. So I will go out on a limb a bit here, as I have NOT hunted bison so can not speak from experience, but I have some serious doubts about needing that much to take a bison. If anything, I think the extra penetration gained by using a elk/moose level load (of 80-110 grs for a .54--which seems to be common with members here, which includes my 80gr deer load) would have more advantages than playing "mine goes faster than yours".

 

[Skylinewatcher]

Thats good to hear. I was afraid the way the link read you was going to get knocked out of it with a ML. Since you had a bud thats done went there with one thats good news. I see where the hunt fee was $5000 and you get all of the doins even a guide, plus a refund. You can't beat that! I know a man that went to hunt elk somewhere that paid more than that and didn't get nothing. Good luck, I hope you have a big freezer. :grin:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Plenty of buffalo were killed in the old days with ML. I don't know why they set the FPE so high.

Just to be safe. I'd use a heavy conical and get close.

I was just reading about an outfitter who guides buffalo, and he said most buffalo kills are at 50 yds.

 

[bubba.50]

you might also check out lee hawes at hawes.org he has buff and elk hunts in kansas. does things as close to the old ways as he can-hunts from horseback, sleeping in a teepee or dugout. likes hunters who use period arms and dress. and from what little i can find on the net his prices seem very reasonable. has an awesome slide show on his site and several of those pictured are holding muzzlers. for what it's worth, bubba.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Here you go.
http://www.classichunts.com/

 

[Skylinewatcher]

Yeah, thats what I want! If I can save up. It will be after disney world/land...whatever is in Florida, I done promised the boy. :rotf:

 

[texcl]

$5000 that's nuts I could shoot a buffalo on the next farm over for less than $700 and I wouldn't even have to cross the fence :wink: . Our fee's for hunting elk last year was les than $100 including tag license and gas (we shot it a mile west of my farm)we've been eating elk 3 times a week for months now and still have more than 200lbs of meat left.

 

[ohiosam]

$5000 that's nuts I could shoot a buffalo on the next farm over for less than $700 and I wouldn't even have to cross the fence :wink: . Our fee's for hunting elk last year was les than $100 including tag license and gas (we shot it a mile west of my farm)we've been eating elk 3 times a week for months now and still have more than 200lbs of meat left.

$5000 is the 3 day guided trophy hunt, if all you want is meat you can shoot a non trophy bull for $1500 or cow for $1000. They are free range not farm raised so a trophy is eligible for record books if you have any interest in that sort of thing.

 

[ohiosam]

Per my balistic calculator, a .575 ball weighing 285 grs, moving at 1875fps develops 2201 ft/lbs at the muzzle, and would therefore qualify. It would take a much heavier load than what I usually use to get there though. just for fun, here's the data for .50 and .54 RBs too (not exact weights for pure lead).


--.530 230 gr at 2080 fps is good for 2210ft/lbs

--.490 at 180 grs would have to be moving at 2350fps to develop 2207 ft/lbs at the muzzle.

Now for the loads required to achieve this, going by my Lyman manual--since I dont load anywhere near these levels...

.58 cal-- Manual's highest shown velocity was out of a 24" barrell, even though they tested longer ones also,falls a little short as it is "only" 1809fps, but took Lyman 190 grs of Goex FF to get there.

.54 cal--the only barrel lenght that made the required velocity of 2080 fps or above, was a 43" that developed 2113fps with 140grs of Goex FFF, with the heaviest loading shown being 160 grs that developed 2158 fps.

.50 cal--the only load shown that meets or exceeds the 2350 fps required was fired out of a 43" barrel, and was launched with 170 grs of Goex FFF for 2354 fps.

Just as a comparison, a .30 180 gr bullet, such as fired out of a .30-06, also meets this requirement at 2350fps, which most would consider a light load, so I would have to agree with Skylinewatcher in that the rules are very skewed in favor of modern equipment.

I am not suggesting anyone try these loads, just showing them what it would take to get there, at least per the Lyman book and my calculator. Since the OP stated that the requirement was measured my Muzzle Energy, the hunting ranges comment in the second post shouldn't be used against you if you chose to try this hunt. But if anyone actually loads like this to get these type of energy levels out of their rifles, well, you're more of a man than I am as those loads are quite a bit heavier than I load my guns. We all know that the deer loads we use are much lighter. Even the common elk/moose loads that have been posted dont usually approach these velocities, and they all seem to work very well. So I will go out on a limb a bit here, as I have NOT hunted bison so can not speak from experience, but I have some serious doubts about needing that much to take a bison. If anything, I think the extra penetration gained by using a elk/moose level load (of 80-110 grs for a .54--which seems to be common with members here, which includes my 80gr deer load) would have more advantages than playing "mine goes faster than yours".

I have 2 .54s my newly acquired flintlock with a slow twist barrel and a Pedersoli Kodiak that probably would shoot a conical( I haven't tried it yet). I knew I couldn't get the required energy out of a .54 PBR.

 

[hoochiepapa]

Last year I contacted a ranch in Wyoming that advertised a "meat cow or bull" for $800. The problem was, they wouldn't let me use my "special rifle". They said I could bring it, and under certain circumstances use it, but I had to bring a cf also. The lady said that buffs were very hard to kill(ha)and that they have had wounded ones get away.
I emailed them some stats I got somewhere showing the energy and all of my .54, but it didn't matter. :idunno:

 

[steveks]

Looks like a nice hunt. Would be fun for sure.

 

[John Wasmuth]

I dont know why Mike, a .58 will whistle right thru them like a hot knife thru butter. I've killed a bunch of them and it aint all that hard to do.
Loads have been 100 grains of FFg, Hornady .577 round ball and a pillow ticking patch
or
a minnie ball with 90 grains of FFg. We've killed them with .30/30s once and a while as well. Not a tank, they got a pump station and lungs just like every other animal. Dern fine eating as well.