Seeking advice on a Long Rifle for 1st flintlock purchase

[MTCossack]

I've got the muzzleloader bug, and it's gotta be a flintlock. It also has to be a long rifle or other full stock design. Any recommendations on a good value? I'd use it for hunting (mostly deer, maybe an elk some day), targets, and general powder burning. I think I've settled on starting with a long rifle style in .50 or .54 caliber, although I'm not ruling out other bore sizes as long as it's over .45 (the legal limit for MT hunting).

I've been eyeballing the Pedersoli line, particularly the "Frontier," which is sold by Cabela's as the "Blue Ridge" for $650 (with free shipping at the moment). I like the lines, the long barrel, and the reviews I've read. I've also been eyeing the Tennesee Valley Muzzleloading "Poor Boy" Tennessee or Southern Rifle, which cost over $400 more. If I can explore this project for less money, I'll prefer to, but I don't want to buy a gun that will just frustrate me (or an ugly gun ).

I'm not ruling out a kit build, but I'd feel better cutting my teeth on a gun that's already built. If I was going to try a build, I'd want one that was mostly complete or even built "in-the-white." I hear Kibler offers the former.

I also love smoothbore guns, like military muskets and the Fusil de Chasse, but I think it would be prudent to start hunting with a rifle and become proficient before I challenge myself with a smoothbore.

The only percussion guns I might consider are European Military styles like the 53 Enfield, but I'm really much more interested in a flintlock. Montana doesn't have a Muzzleloader season, so the only real incentive for me is the connection to history, so even though other muzzleloader designs might be more efficient, I'm not really interested. I want it old fashioned and purty. American Long Rifles, military style rifled muskets, trade guns...

So with that in mind, can anyone offer recommendations? What are good options for a reliable, attractive flinter with a full length wooden stock and a (fairly) authentic historical aesthetic and function? What is to be avoided and why? What do I need to know about and keep in mind? As I mentioned, low price is important - I don't think I can pay more than the cost of a TVM right now, and even that will involve selling off a modern gun or two - but so is having something attractive that won't be full of frustrations.

Don't worry - I won't hunt with anything that I haven't learned and practiced to proficiency.

 

[19 16 6]

Have you thought of the possibility of a second hand custom gun that has proven accuracy ?
O.M

 

[azmntman]

x2

 

[fleener]

Kibler rifle kits are quite simply assume.

I dont own one, but have had a hard time resisting the urge to buy one.

You can certainly buy a used custom rifle. I have and have certainly not regretted it.

Fleener

 

[fleener]

Sorry, too early and did not catch my spell checker.

Fleener

 

[BrownBear]

I've been eyeballing the Pedersoli line, particularly the "Frontier," which is sold by Cabela's as the "Blue Ridge" for $650 (with free shipping at the moment). I like the lines, the long barrel, and the reviews I've read.

I'm an immediate gratification sort of character, so I'll propose that you might want to get to shooting right away, even if you recognize that there will likely be another muzzleloader or two (or three or four) coming down the road someday. I'd lean toward the Frontier (I have a couple of them) as a way to get shooting right away so you learn the ropes, even if the things you learn point you toward a more detailed decision about a future buy. You can always sell the Frontier at that time to help with the purchase. But I bet you won't! :wink:

Sitting as you are now on the left side of the learning curve, you'll be taking someone else's word about any used gun you buy. After all, there's some reason they're selling it, and you might not know enough to determine if the reason they state is the real truth.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I concur....

The Frontier in .54 with it's 1:65 twist will give you all you need to take an elk or something smaller...

Now that's a factory, OTC rifle. The stock isn't very historic in its lines. The lock is held in place with a single lock screw, plus a lone wood screw that is forward of the frizzen spring. You need to be careful when removing the lock for cleaning as repeated, often removal may wear out the wood at that point. The Frontier has a patent breech and you will need to learn how to clean that to ensure reliable ignition. Also, I experienced with mine that you really need to replace the front sight with a thin, silver blade to get the most accuracy from the rifle. Mine shot quite well after that.

I'm not sure the Kibler Kits come as large as .50 or .54

I would highly recommend that you contact Cabin Creek Muzzleloading and look at the Pennsylvania Mountain Rifle and inquire about getting that "in the white", or the Colonial Virginia Rifle again in-the-white, as either are offered in .54. I have taken lots of deer with my PA Mountain Rifle, and while either are going to run about 3X the cost of the Frontier...it is well worth it.

LD

 

[Juice Jaws]

Get what ever style you like, but if you plan on hunting deer and elk some day I would get it in 54. 50 will do but 54 just gives you a extra edge.

 

[Pete G]

Take a look at the Track of the Wolf web site at guns for sale to get some ideas of what is available. Their prices include a consignment fee so the true value of the gun is somewhat less.

 

[Kansas Jake]

X2 on the 54 caliber. I live in Kansas and a 50 will do just fine for game that is available here. If a Kansan also planned on going west to hunt larger game such as elk or bear, then a 54 or larger would be a good recommendation. You are in Montana and have a wider range of big game available. Get the 54. The only down side to the 54 is 50 balls etc are more common over the counter and they require slightly less lead if you cast, so you get more balls per pound. They also will usually get to peak performance with slightly less powder other things being equal.

 

[stubshaft]

TVM Early Virginia .54 cal. Wide butt for recoil, well balanced and surefire lock.

 

[fleener]

Kibler is coming out with one in larger cal. Real soon.

Fleener

 

[Rifleman1776]

I've got the muzzleloader bug, and it's gotta be a flintlock.

That is a good bug to have. :grin:
What is you max budget? Others have already made suggestions. You will be much happier with a custom built using quality parts. Flintlocks on factory built rifles are often/usually very frustrating to try to get firing reliably. There are a lot of good suppliers out there. Take your time and check around.

 

[Artificer]

This is a question to Brown Bear, Loyalist Dave and others who own or have used the Pedersoli Frontier Rifles, because I am not familiar with them.

Do I correctly assume the Locks on the Flintlock versions normally can be expected to work well, right out of the box?

The reason I ask is because there is nothing that will turn off a new person interested in getting started with flintlocks, than to get a rifle/gun with a poor or bad quality lock.

Gus

 

[F.G. Ford]

I'm not sure the Kibler Kits come as large as .50 or .54

LD[/quote]

Their last post says that the Carolina rifle comes in .50 & .54
Fred

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi,
Most of the fellows here and on "the other" traditional muzzle loading site are honest and straight forward about the quality of the guns they are selling.
Find the one you like, ask lost of questions, and ask help here, and you will walk away with a fine shooting gun.
I have bought several here, and NEVER a disappointment.
But definitely go with a .54 or even a .58, they both have whomp, and a well loaded .58 makes a good hole side to side or back to front.
Fred

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hello again,
There is a post on the percussion forum about a broken mainspring on a well accepted factory " Hawken type rifle"
A broken mainspring and the original maker/supplier cannot supply. Wonderful!
A custom made ( second hand ) rifle with an L&R or Siler lock will last forever and ample parts are available.
Fred

 

[BrownBear]

This is a question to Brown Bear, Loyalist Dave and others who own or have used the Pedersoli Frontier Rifles, because I am not familiar with them.

Do I correctly assume the Locks on the Flintlock versions normally can be expected to work well, right out of the box?

The reason I ask is because there is nothing that will turn off a new person interested in getting started with flintlocks, than to get a rifle/gun with a poor or bad quality lock.

Gus

I have zero personal experience with bum Pedersoli locks and I haven't seen a single problem lock among the many owned by my circle of friends. Not so with Traditions locks or early Thompson Center locks.

 

[Artificer]

This is a question to Brown Bear, Loyalist Dave and others who own or have used the Pedersoli Frontier Rifles, because I am not familiar with them.

Do I correctly assume the Locks on the Flintlock versions normally can be expected to work well, right out of the box?

The reason I ask is because there is nothing that will turn off a new person interested in getting started with flintlocks, than to get a rifle/gun with a poor or bad quality lock.

Gus

I have zero personal experience with bum Pedersoli locks and I haven't seen a single problem lock among the many owned by my circle of friends. Not so with Traditions locks or early Thompson Center locks.

Thank you for that feedback. Since you all hunt in some of the worst conditions in the country, that says a lot.

Gus

 

[azmntman]

I have zero personal experience with bum Pedersoli locks and I haven't seen a single problem lock among the many owned by my circle of friends. Not so with Traditions locks or early Thompson Center locks.

older CVA apparently also had issues. My ol Boss had one that would not spark ever. We did fire it once as I recall. He had it loaded and it would not spark PERIOD. He had a fuse he used (blackcat?). Then cleaned and in safe (probably still is).

I have but one flinter, a Tradition and I got lucky. Works well and even better since I dropped in here and learned how to knapp the edge (if I would be allowed to call what I do knapping ). I'll get there