Please understand I am not saying that Kibs kits are not worth the asking price,just that they are way abive what I wish to spend on my first kit.Plus I want a percussion .50 Hawken type kit,which he does not offer at this time
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Seeking recommendations fo a good .50 Hawken kit.
- Thread starter philo426
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Jim Kibler's kits are top quality throughout. The inletting is 99.0% done and perfect. The stock is pre-sanded. I have done two, they are fantastic.
I believe Jim is the only one who could produce a top quality Hawken kit. Hopefully someday he will. Right now he is busy with a new Colonial rifle.
Stith sells parts sets that can be made into a rifle. He does not sell kits. They are not for builders who do not have vast experience and special knowledge. Per his website:
NOTE: These are not kits. The parts are selected to work together and are stylistically correct. It will take an experienced builder about 100 hours to complete a finished rifle. Also note: LOCKS ARE NOT INCLUDED.
He is not kidding! I have vast experience. I took a very long time. IT became a battle of wills to finish the thing.
I believe Jim is the only one who could produce a top quality Hawken kit. Hopefully someday he will. Right now he is busy with a new Colonial rifle.
Stith sells parts sets that can be made into a rifle. He does not sell kits. They are not for builders who do not have vast experience and special knowledge. Per his website:
NOTE: These are not kits. The parts are selected to work together and are stylistically correct. It will take an experienced builder about 100 hours to complete a finished rifle. Also note: LOCKS ARE NOT INCLUDED.
He is not kidding! I have vast experience. I took a very long time. IT became a battle of wills to finish the thing.
Billnpatti
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Pyrodex said:
First you have to decide whether you want just a plains style of rifle or one that is historically accurate down to the last tiny detail or something in between. Next you have to decide how much money you have to spend. Lastly, you have to decide how well supplied you are with tools and skills. If you want a gun that is...well... pretty close to an actual Hawken but relatively easy to build, you can buy a Lyman Great Plains kit and you will have a very nice looking gun that is fairly close to a historically correct Hawken and at a managable price. If your pockets are deeper, you can buy a kit from The Hawken Shop. It is fairly pricy but less than a custom rifle. However, it requires a greater investment in tools and a greater level of skill. Lastly, you can buy a custom built rifle but in this case, you will need pretty deep pockets. So, you decide just how historically accurate your Hawken replica needs to be, then check you pockets, check your tools and check your skills and then take your pick.
All things considered,I think the Great Plains rifle would be the best choice at this point.Close enough Hawken type that looks and shoots well is all that is required right now.If I enjoy the results then perhaps I may step up to a more Elite level kit.
I think that is a wise decision.
The GPR is a good representation of the Plains rifle.
Perhaps the only thing that sticks out as a difference is the "fish belly", curved shape on the lower side of the stock. (The Hawkens and many others were straight in that area.
The "fish belly" seemed to be more popular in the Ohio area.)
Even though the Lyman kits are pretty straight forward and simple to build there will be questions about it.
Don't rush it and if you have any questions at all about something, be sure to ask us.
The GPR is a good representation of the Plains rifle.
Perhaps the only thing that sticks out as a difference is the "fish belly", curved shape on the lower side of the stock. (The Hawkens and many others were straight in that area.
The "fish belly" seemed to be more popular in the Ohio area.)
Even though the Lyman kits are pretty straight forward and simple to build there will be questions about it.
Don't rush it and if you have any questions at all about something, be sure to ask us.
Yep, they are and are welcome.
If you get a Lyman, they have a ugly flat place at the tail of the lock mortise. A gun finished with this flat place left instantly becomes amateurish in it's construction.
Round this place off and blend it into the wrist.
I have questioned first time builders why they left this flat place; their answer is always "I like it that way", duh.
Here is an example of one built with the flat place left.
If you get a Lyman, they have a ugly flat place at the tail of the lock mortise. A gun finished with this flat place left instantly becomes amateurish in it's construction.
Round this place off and blend it into the wrist.
I have questioned first time builders why they left this flat place; their answer is always "I like it that way", duh.
Here is an example of one built with the flat place left.
Billnpatti
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Pyrodex said:
I think you made a good choice. Good luck on the build. :thumbsup:
Col. Batguano
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And be mindful of the dreaded breech hump too. Another tip off to an amateurish build. Thanks for the picture of the flat spot. Man that is ugly.
Col. Batguano
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Not sure what you mean by "crowning the breech tang", but generally, the wrist should be sloping downward at, or slightly in front of the entry point for the tang. It depends somewhat on the school. Lehighs are about an inch on to the last of the barrel flat, and Lancasters are about 1/4".
English guns are right at the juncture of the breech and the tang.
But for ALL of them, yhere should be NO flat spot extending rearward on to the tang. Since the plug is solid there for about 1/4", what that means is that you can't bend it. You'll have to file it away. Most tangs are WAY thicker than they need to be anyway. You only need about 0.100"- 0.125" thickness for stiffness there in that area. As they come (from the barrel guys like Rice) they're about 1/4" thick. Not sure about the kit gun guys' stuff.
That's the thing about builds, there seems like there is ALWAYS more wood or metal that needs to be removed, until there isn't anymore.
English guns are right at the juncture of the breech and the tang.
But for ALL of them, yhere should be NO flat spot extending rearward on to the tang. Since the plug is solid there for about 1/4", what that means is that you can't bend it. You'll have to file it away. Most tangs are WAY thicker than they need to be anyway. You only need about 0.100"- 0.125" thickness for stiffness there in that area. As they come (from the barrel guys like Rice) they're about 1/4" thick. Not sure about the kit gun guys' stuff.
That's the thing about builds, there seems like there is ALWAYS more wood or metal that needs to be removed, until there isn't anymore.
Col. Batguano
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Follow up to the above post, as time has expired to allow me to continue editing it;
If by "crowning the breech area" you mean rounding the tang to a shape other than flat, as is the top barrel flat, the answer to that is decidedly no. It should be flat, just like your barrel flat is flat. Some builders break the sharp corners of the edges somewhat, but most don't.
By "flat spot" I meant the profile of the gun as viewed from the SIDE of the gun in the breech area. If you extend the the horizontal plane of the barrel in to the tang (because that's the way they come) then THAT is what will give you the profile look of the "breech hump". I hope that clarifies it a little more. Sorry for the excessive post.
If by "crowning the breech area" you mean rounding the tang to a shape other than flat, as is the top barrel flat, the answer to that is decidedly no. It should be flat, just like your barrel flat is flat. Some builders break the sharp corners of the edges somewhat, but most don't.
By "flat spot" I meant the profile of the gun as viewed from the SIDE of the gun in the breech area. If you extend the the horizontal plane of the barrel in to the tang (because that's the way they come) then THAT is what will give you the profile look of the "breech hump". I hope that clarifies it a little more. Sorry for the excessive post.
Zonie said:
Yep...exactly what I said above...and that can be very readily fixed with a few minutes and a rasp!
