Semolina filler in a single shot pistol?

[CKeshen]

I was reading a page on the Pedersoli website about the Le Page pistol and they quote Stefano Caruso, the Italian shooter who won the gold medal in the Kuchenreuter discipline shooting a Le Page in .36. He states "I usually load 10.8 grains (0,7 g approximately) of Swiss powder N. 1 and round ball .354 (8,99 mm), patch thickness .007” (0,18 mm) lubed with few drops of Dunlubri oil. I pour semolina equivalent to the volume of the black powder between the powder and the ball."

I understand the use of filler in a revolver, but what does the filler do for you in a single shot pistol?
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/no...le-page-percussion-and-flintlock-pistols.html

 

[pargent]

With very light loads it puts the ball away from the powder and lets the powder form a uniform shape against the breech for consistent ignition and burn .

 

[Zonie]

Dixie Gunworks catalog says the .44 caliber LePage rifling is .010 deep. Unfortunately, they don't show a .36 caliber model.

The Pedersoli site shows the .36 but doesn't give the rifling depth.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sc...e-le-page-target-deluxe-percussion-model.html

Anyway, noting the ball size Mr Caruso gives tells me he's shooting a .36.
If the rifling depth is .010, I can see why he's using the semolina (Cream of Wheat) filler.

His .007 thick patch would not fill the rifling grooves to create a gas seal.

Adding the semolina between the powder and the patched ball will create a gas seal to protect the patch while the patch will transfer the rifling twist spin to the ball.

With a light 10.8 grain powder load, I would expect it to work quite well.

 

[cynthialee]

Must be working for him. He won gold.

Only reason I have used a buffer in a single shot pistol is when I have a heavier powder load with a thin patch. The buffer helps prevent patch damage from a stout charge. At the light load he is using I wouldn't see the need. But like I said, must be working for him.

 

[CKeshen]

Is that a rule of thumb that the rifling depth should match the patch thickness?

I am actually considering getting the gun in .44. Pedersoli recommends a .435 ball, so I guess that would match with a .010 patch.

Makes sense to me.

 

[curator]

Zonie is right on with his explanation. Cream of Wheat (Semolina) used as a filler will allow one to load a loose patch/ball combination and still get a good gas seal and accuracy of a tighter load. I have used this technique many times when attempting to mentor someone new to muzzle loading when they are having a bad time working up an accurate load. You do need enough filler to form a bore diameter plug under the ball for it to work. My formula is half of the powder charge by volume.

 

[biliff]

FWIW, I shoot a .433 ball and a .010" patch in both my LePages.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, ideally, the patch should be thicker than the rifling groove depth.

The diameter of the ball plus twice the thickness of the patch should be larger than the bottom of the rifling groove diameter.

This works well in rifles but it can cause problems when it comes to loading a pistol.

Pistols, (we're talking about single shot muzzleloading pistols) are light weight and difficult to get a good grasp on while ramming the patched ball. It's too easy to break the grip off of a muzzleloading pistol to just count on resting it against the bench and then taking the force needed to drive in a rifle type fitting patch and ball.

That's the reason I would never suggest using say, a .490 diameter ball with a .018 thick patch in a muzzleloading pistol although rifle shooters use it all the time.

All this leads to people using wads, semolina, corn meal and a host of other ideas along with light powder loads in their pistols.

 

[BowerR64]

I think the filler does a few things depends on the gun and the powder.

For revolvers like the pietta wich have chamber openings smaller then the bore size the filler fills in the gap creating a better seal.

I also thing it helps your packing, powders like T7 are finiky about how hard you pack the ball. It helps your packing because the filler is a little forgiving.

If you ream your chambers and use powders like goex, swiss or pyrodex you wont need to use any fillers. Reaming the cylinder corrects the small ball problem creating a perfect seal and blackpowder and pyrodex arnt as finiky with how hard you pack em.

I would prefer to skip the filler because its just one more step you have to measure and bring more equipment for.

Once i tried carpet cleaner for filler becasue it had a nice smell to it and it wouldnt irritate others shooting around me but it just gave it a tropical blackpowder stink.

 

[Many Klatch]

I tried the .435 ball and .010 patching in my LePage and got tired of having to use a hammer to force the ball down the barrel. Now I use a .433 and it is much easier to load.

Many Klatch

 

[CKeshen]

I've been using a .490 ball with a .015 patch in my William Parker and sometimes it is difficult to load. I am not sure what the depth of the rifling is on the gun, and I have not experimented with other ball/patch sizes but this combination does shoot well.

With 50 cal. though you are kind of limited to choices. .490 with a .010 patch would make it easier to load.

 

[Dphar]

No. 1 Swiss is FFFF. Similar to a mid-19th c powder called "Revolver" that was used in both percussion revolvers and in at least some pistol/revolver cartridges.
You also understand that this is a paper punching load and of little use for anything else? I use my FL pistols for other things and almost never shoot paper with them.
The breakfast cereal prevents blowby.
Myself I would likely use Puf-Lon though the cereal will likely increase load inertia and this might be good. The pistol has a 1:18 twist.

Can't argue with the results.
Filler may be more useful it light loads of fat powder than with heavier charges of FFF or FF.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

I've been using a .490 ball with a .015 patch in my William Parker and sometimes it is difficult to load. I am not sure what the depth of the rifling is on the gun, and I have not experimented with other ball/patch sizes but this combination does shoot well.

With 50 cal. though you are kind of limited to choices. .490 with a .010 patch would make it easier to load.

I use looser loads in pistols often. If they shoot OK and don't blow patches not reason not to.
Pistols are hard to get the ball started in since its difficult to keep the pistol held in position without a loading stand or some such.
A .527 will often work well in a 54 pistol for example.
Dan

 

[CKeshen]

All right. I couldn't take it any more. I just got off the phone with Richard at Flintlocks, Etc. and ordered a Le Page .44 and ordered 500 .433 balls and .010 patches from Track of the Wolf.

Thank you all for your advice.

 

[Many Klatch]

You will have a lot of fun with the LePage. I shoot between 20 and 25 grains of 3F in mine. Makes a nice cloud of smoke and puts the ball where I want it if I do my part.

Many Klatch

 

[biliff]

Something to build anticipation.

 

[Wes/Tex]

:thumbsup:

 

[CKeshen]

I have a flask spout that I filed down to throw an approximate 22.5 grain load of Pyrodex P that I use for my '58 Remy revolver. I think I will start with that load, but I also want to try an 18 grain load, and a 20 to see how it shoots.

Pedersoli has a chart of recommended loads where they list 18 as the charge in the Le Page .44 percussion. But they also list 18 as the charge for a .44 Remy, and that seems a little light to me. They say that is with Swiss powder. Does that have a little more "umph" that regular BP or Pyrodex?
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/uploads/supporto/9TABELLA DOSI POLVERE 09-2010.pdf

 

[coloradoclyde]

Is the semolina poured directly onto the powder charge or is something used to separate it ?

 

[pargent]

Myself ,I use 30grns in my .45 single shot with slightly firm patching , this works well for me to keep in the top five at state level .I do much better when my loads shoot flater .