sharpining a knife the right way

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mudd turtle

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I have a couple of custom made knifes that I need to sharpen. I know nothing about sharpening a knife . I do know I don't want to ruin a good knife by sharpening it wrong. How do you determine the correct angle and what stone do you use. Could any of you discuss the best way to sharpen a knife with out ruining it. mudd turtle.
 
It's like preferences in women, I suppose- you'll get a lot of different answers.

I think most folks will find it easier to hold the blade stationary and move the stone. That is 180 degrees from what 95% of folks will tell you.

The hardest thing for most sharpeners to "get" is how to sharpen at a consistent angle.

It is also hard to see how bad the knife is or how sharp it is. So do it in good light and use magnification.

Then you have to decide what to use, grit-wise and stone-wise.

Here's my advice:
1) Fasten the handle in a vise in great light with the blade horizontal, sticking out to the right and the cutting edge facing you. Get a wide felt marker and "color" the edge. This lets you know where you are actually sharpening the knife. Where the color is removed- that's where you are working! This makes it easy to adjust your angle of approach.

2) Take a long stone that is medium grit and wearing gloves, use the stone like a file to remove steel at the edge, all along. Where the blade is curved, work to keep the same angle- remove an equal width of marker from all along the edge.

3) Do this till you have gotten rid of all dullness and established a nearly perfect flat edge angle.

4) Flip the knife over. Now you have to work with the knife sticking out to the left side. Do the marker thing. You should feel a little curled over lip called a "wire edge" if you did the right amount of work on the other side of the knife.

5) Attack this edge the same way, using the stone like a file. The wire edge should shear right off. Now work to establish that nice flat edge ange uniformly all along the edge.

6) Flip knife over, re-marker it, and repeat with a finer grit stone.

7) Flip knife over, do the same. Now check the edge very carefully in good light to see if there are any dull spots remaining. Hopefully not.

8) Last step is to take a piece of flat hardwood the size of a ruler or yardstick, maybe 9" long, and load it up with a buffing compound. Use this like a file but work from the back of the knife toward the edge, exactly the opposite of how you sharpened it. Go ahead and use the marker trick again.

The knife will now be easier to sharpen because you have really nice edge angles. Depending on how the knife will be used, you may also re-establish new angles when doing a major re-sharpening. Leave a stronger , wider angle for a knife that may chop through bone, etc than one for whittling or fileting fish, etc.
 
Thank you very much for the information. I will try your instructions on an old knife first. mud turtle
 
Mud Turtle: i think you would be best advised to contact The Razor Sharp Company, in Ely, Minn. They have an 800 number that you can get from 800 information. 1-800-555-1212. Order their book, and they will send you a catalogue of their products. They produce two sizes of blade clamps that are used to maintain the bevels on your edges when you use a stone or paper glued to a board to sharpen your knife. They sell the paper and boards, but you can probably make your own cheaper.

I use Honing stones. The first bevel is put on the blade using a Washita, or medium grade arkansas stone. I use Liquid Wrench to lubricate the stone because it not only is a lubricating oil, but it contains oxydizers to dissolve the bits of steel that clog the stone's surface as you remove the metal from the edge of your knife. This allows the steel bits to " float " in the oil, where i can wipe them off the stone with a rag or paper towel.

I put a fine bevel on the edge on each side, working up a burr on the edge before flipping the knife over and doing the other side the same way. You do have to learn to be a bit ambidextrous to do this free hand, and that is why I am recommending you buy the blade clamps. One is for pocket knives, and the other is for longer blades. I wish they made a bigger clamp to use on blades over 6 inches long, because its a pain to try to hold the edge with even their large clamp on such a long blade. Both use allen screws to hold the clamps to the knife, and these do a better job of holding than anything else on the market.

When I have that final burr worked up on the second side of the knife, I clean out my stone, put a new coat of Liquid Wrench on it to soak, and put the stone aside. Maintaining your stones is the secret of getting a long life out of them, Using every part of the stone is the second thing YOU HAVE TO DO, to keep the surface flat. I begin my strokes at one corner of the stone, and drag the edge across the stone so that it goes the length of the stone to the opposite corner. I turn the stone around and then do the same thing from the other two corners.

I move the clamps forward to raise, or increase the angle of the bevel, before turning to my Hard Arkansas stone. Mine is about 13 inches long, and almost 3 inches wide. I use it bare. The strokes are the same as with my washita, from corner to opposite corner, and turn the stone around to wear the stone evenly. I always count the stroke, so I don't work one side of the blade more than the other. That is how you keep the edge both sharp and Straight! I work up a new, much smaller burr on both sides of the knife blade. Check it in the light, ( use natural or incadescent light, NEVER flourescent light to examine the edge!), and then check it by drawing the knife's edge slowly over your thumb nail. It should feel " bumpy" and ragged.

The next step is an edge maker, or killer. If you don't do it the knife will actually be set up to dull quicker in use.

Use an old belt or other piece of leather to strop the blade. When you are sharpening the edge, you cut into the stone as if you were slicing off a piece of the stone. When stropping you draw the edge BACK across the strop, as if you are wiping water off the blade, and wanting to make sure there is nothing still sticking to the edge. So, the wiping action is from the back of the blade to the edge. The first strokes will remove all the burrs, and leave a light gray line on the leather. You can wipe it off, or just leave it there. Continue to strop the edge to polish and burnish it. About 8-10 strokes per side is all that you need to get a razor's edge, if you did everything else correctly.

By doing a double beveled edge, rather than the single bevel so common on factory produced blades, the edge is supported, giving it great strength. By stropping the edge to remove that final burr, you get a smooth edge that is solid( check it in the light to see the difference) with no nicks, cuts, cracks, or bends in it. You can slice through meat with almost no resistance at all.

The Edge will hold up as long as you don't hit hard objects and nick or crack, or chip that edge. So take care of that tool.

Oh, when I am done with my hard arkansas stone, I wash the surface with my liguid wrench and use my fingers and hands to push the liquid into the surface to begin eating those little bits of steel that are shining back at me. I set the stone aside for the chemical oxidizers to do their thing, while I now clean my washita stone, which has been soaking while I used my hard( fine ) arkansas stone and my strop. ( I use an old belt, that I loop over a door knob, and then pull towards me with my dominant hand, while I strop the knife back and forth with my non-dominant hand. Because I am pressing down on the belt with some force, I tend to lean back to put my weight behind my strong hand pulling the belt.

Stropping is occasionally still seen being done in barber shops, but mostly by the older barbers. The young guys now buy cheap, disposable straight razors, and don't bother learning how to, much less use a strop to maintain the edge. They throw the old ones out and pull a new one out of their drawer.YOu can still buy barber's strops at barber supply shots, but they really aren't necessary for sharpening your knife. My old belts have been drafted for this final workout for years, and are still going strong. My current belt is about 30 years old. I may have to put some neatsfoot oil on it some time, but its working fine as a strop.

I usually let the Liquid Wrench work for a couple of hours, before I wipe down the hard stone. If there is still steel shining back at me, I repply liquid wrench and let the stone sit. Sometimes it sits overnight, but eventually I will remove all the bits from the stone and it will look like new. I dry it and return it to its wooden box, and store it for the next use. People always marvel at the length and width of the stones I own and use, until they see how quickly I can put an edge on their knife blades. Roger Needham has been selling stones at Friendship for many years. He also has out a 2 page sheet with directions on sharpening knives using honing stones. He published that information in Muzzle Blasts a couple of years ago, too. Its the same info I have just given you. If you can't find Liquid Wrench in your harware store, buy some Break Free, or any of the other oils that are sold for loosening rusted bolts and screws, like Kroil. They all work. If you can't get these, then at least use kerosene( motor fuel) to wash your stones. Because of the kerosene, there is a bit of odor to these products, so pick your spot for sharpening knives with some consideration to how the rest of the household is going to want to smell kerosene fumes in the house.
 
Mudd turtle, custom made knives are a joy to own, I know as I've been making the for the last eighteen years! The advise I can offer you is this; depending on the steel your knives are made from, and the hardness (rc temper) they have been given, will determine the best sharpening medium you use to maintain(or rekindle) your edges. If these are stainles steel blades I can tell you from experience that hand sharpening is going to take up much more of your time than if they are of the high carbon type. Over all I am of old school and enjoy using arkansas stones but their are also very good diamond plated sharpeners that cost about the same as arkansas stones and they dont care what type of steel you have, you can use any type of fluid to lube them and they wash up with soap and warm water. On my arkansas stones I use kerosine lamp oil strictly( in unscented clear), this stuff will not allow particles to deeply embed in your stone and can be worked up and away with a few swipes of your finger. Learning the skill of maintaining a constant bevel is the mosy important thing when it comes to maintaining a good slicing edge, It should be done evenly from each side right down to a wire edge( for most folks this can seem to take forever for the simple reason that they tend to continue using the knife well past the point when edge maintenance should have been given).Much of my business at hunting seasn is from folks who can't get the edge back on the knife and usually it's because their rounding the edge instead of forming that fine micro edge. The other problem they have is not knowing anything about the good ole strop. Take a piece of pine board 3x10 and a piece of good 8oz leather and glue them together and you have a strop that will last you years and is small enough to take anywhere.If you put this strop in a vise you can use both hands on the knife and get great contol. You can use it plain, or you can charge it with a littl oil and polishing compound-even store bought brass polishing compound works well- working your knife by drawing the edge on the strop will work of the wire edge and maintain the edge while in use. Knife sharpening can be very frustrating if your edges are way far gone and in need of regringing and unless you are practiced at this sort of thing I can only recomend that you contact the maker of your knives and they should reestablish the bevel on your knives.(as a side note, it has been my experience that alot of custom makers leave far to much thickness on the bevel right down to the edge, which does not make a user friendly knife, knive are not hatchets and should not be forged or ground as such! such! : :v :v
 
I use a kit made by Gatco. It has 5 stones of different grit , one is for serrated blades. Bottle of oil is included. It has a angle guide that clamps to the blade that has 6 different angles. The angle depends on the type of use the blade was designed for. The stones are fixed in their own holder which is color coded for the grit. A rod extends out of the holder to fit in the angle guide. It comes with instructions on the lid of a very nice compact case. It cost me 25 dollars about 8 years ago and is one of the best investments I've made , IMHO. I think you can find them in Cabelas or The Sportsman Guide. Just my .02 cents
 
WADR, the stones are very small, and the rods bend easy with any pressure applied, causing the edges to round. You can use them, only if you really know what you are doing in the first place.

The same with Diamond stones. When they are new, they cut too much, and take out large chunks. They dull over time, and then they can only be used for finishing work. As long as you know the limitations, they are terrific for the price you pay. The secret to using any sharpening medium is learning how much pressure, and how fast to draw the blade over the stone. Learning the angles, and how to hold them free-hand takes years. First you have to learn to actually lock your wrist. Then you have to learn to see the angles by eye, without a protractor, or shim cut to the correct angle. Then you have to learn to do it with both hands. I think you can learn all this much quicker using the blade clamps from the Razor Edge Systems, Inc.( Ely, Minn. )

No, I don't own stock, and am not related to the owners. I spent years trying to find written materials on making and sharpening knives. I ran across an add for the book in a Marine Book Club sales catalogue, and ordered it. I already had 4 other books on making knives and sharpening them. This book is the best of them all, and has now stood the test of time for me. The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranitch( 1985).
 
I had a profession cut the bevel of my blade at 23 degrees, and I made a jig to rest my stone on, at 23 degrees.

I dont sharpen my blades, i hone them to scary, nasty sharpness.
 
Yes, but mine came in a red case. Personally I think it's the cats meow. I don't let my blades get super dull, that way I only need a couple of passes with the smooth stone to keep them sharp. From use the rods may have gotten a little loose ( not much ) but never had one bend , I think they are stainless rods. To each his own , but for me they were a good investment. For a beginer they are nice to get the angles consistant , but once you've been doing it a while , like paul says , you can hold an angle pretty good with out any aid . Thanks for the pic, thats the one.
 
You've got it down pat, Paul. You might give your stropping belt a good rubbing with jewelers rouge to really make 'em work.
 
Well, this has been covered well. I'll just add that some of the newer harder stainless alloy steels are a bear to sharpen on Arkansas stones. I love Arkansas stones and collect them, but they fall short on newer steels. Arkansas stones, no matter whether they are called Washita, Hard or Soft stones are all the same hardness (Moh's7)--they differ in "graininess" (porosity). Some steels approach this hardness and are therefore hard to 'cut' (abrade) with Ark stones. The diamond impregnated 'stones' work well for starting the edges on such steel (Moh's H =10). The Al2O3 stones (various tradenames, mineral name=corundum) have a Moh's H = 9 and work well also.
An old timer from West Virginia taught me to properly sharpen blades when I was in the Army. Thought I knew how, but he showed me right. It is a skill which can be 'shortcutted' with the angle tools out now. I disagree with the idea of running the stone along the blade--you should anchor the stone and run the blade along it. "Slice" the stone at the angle you want (15-20 deg+/-)drawing the blade along the whole length, accomodating the curves if any. Hard steady pressure, 10 times on each side until the proper bevel is cut; then one stroke each side alternating until the edge is finished. Light strokes finish it. Done right, no stroping is needed and no burr should result. Always works for me.
 
I agree, Mike. I sharpened a knife for a friend made by Pete Kershaw, that was so hard, I barely could cut it on my stones using my considerable full weight!

If you are going to have a knife blade made from of the really hard stainless steels today, you really need power wheels to sharpen them. Woodcrafters sells an excellent, slow speed wheel that is perfect for these kinds of knives.

As to your single bevel sharpening, If you look at the finished edge on your blade in good light with a magnifying glass, you will see a fine burr. Often called a " false Edge ", it is none-the-less a burr. When it catches on something, it will not only tear off, it will take with it part of the edge to which it was attached. That is what John Juranitch observed when he used a microscope to look at edges. Its in his book.

I think the supported edge, made by using two stones, and then stropping the blade( A " Three-step Process ) works best, produces the sharpest edge, that lasts the longest. I also was taught the way you were taught, again by a WWII GI vet. I did my knives that way until I found John's book in 1985. I change then and have not gone back.
 
I feel for the "burr" and on rare occasions have found one--then I strop on leather after some fine touches on a fine stone--generally I only feel a burr after using something like a "steel" to touch up an edge. I used to strop all the time--you jogged my memory and the old timer who showed me how to sharpen always stropped, too. I do have some blades with convex edges and they require a diffrent method of sharpening best done on proper wheels. Many of the hand-forged crowd of knifesmiths have learned the convex edge technique.
 
With some concave blades, I find I have to use only a single bevel edge. On others, there is enough metal left below the curve that I can use the supported edge system, that produces the double bevel shape to the edge.
 
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