Shooting old guns

[Tight_Wad]

This is probably one for Zonie and all you engineer nurds out there (no offence!).

In the case of old, original guns - and I'm talking particularly of Civil War era revolvers, do we know what effect the pasing years are likely to have had on the steel. Does steel become more brittle with age? I'm not talking about rust or pitting - my revolver is a 140 year old Rogers & Spencer and it appears to have had very little use. It's in really good condition but I'd be interested to know how the steel would compare to that used in the modern day repro.

Thanks and good shooting,

Tight Wad :bow:

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Congratulations on that beautiful Rogers & Spencer!

Not an engineer, but do not think non-rusty steel deteriorates with age only as a factor ...

Some years ago there was an article by a metalurgist who tested parts from a Civil War production Colt revolver and various modern replica cap & ball revolvers... think the Civil War Colt parts tested about 24 on the Rockwell Hardness Scale.

One of the low end replicas did not even register 1 (one) on the Rockwell Scale. Still safe to shoot, but very soft metal.

Perhaps someone can find & link or quote the article. Think it was in American Rifleman.

 

[SAJones]

Can't say much about CW revolvers, but I have shot my 1842 musket w/ no problems. No a real valuable collectable, as it has been cut down. Have a friend that shoots almost all originals in matchs. Also have another friend who bought a Remington 1858 at a garage sale for $100!! & he shot it for a spell before retiring it as a collector's gun. One thing to keep in mind is that shooting the old guns will reduce their value, and there is always the chance you may damage it. Risk you have to consider.

 

[Jac Spring]

I would think that the primary issue would be with the small parts that could break with use. I'd certainly think the cylinder, frame and barrel would be fine for bp shooting.

Personally though, if that were mine, I may shoot it a few times just for fun but not on a regular basis. The replicas are just too reasonably priced not to get and shoot instead. IMHO.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, the steel that was used for the cylinder, frame and barrel would not weaken from age as long as corrosion (rust) was not present.

The springs may have weakened because they are under some stress even when the gun is not cocked.
This weakening is caused by "creep" and it occurs when a material is under load for long periods of time.

Folks reading this should realize that during the Civil War some of the guns made were not of the greatest quality and occasionally blew up. Before you say, "they were probably overcharged", remember, this happened to revolvers too so, just because your original is in great condition that is not a sign that it is 100% safe.

I have to agree with O.S.O.K..
With more people getting into collecting authentic antique guns, the values of the original guns are increasing and there are reproduction guns available at reasonable prices, even the Rogers & Spencer.

zonie

 

[John Taylor]

I do rebores on a lot of old barrels and some will machine great and others seem to tear more than cut. I'm sure the factory had good rifling in them when they were made but some seem to have hard spots that I can hear as the cutter goes by. Don't know if this is from shooting or if something in the metal has changed with time.

 

[Colt 4pounder]

I am a member of the N-SSA and shoot a lot of civil war firearms, several of which are original. I do own some guns that have just become to valuable to shoot, although I still shoot them now and then. The ones that I do shoot a lot needed work when I got them and thus have much less collector value, we call them shooters. Many old Civil war muskets were bored out and /or had their stocks and barrels cut down and used as shot guns after the war and can be picked up cheep, or at least cheeper than a mint intact musket. I have had barrels re-lined and rebult locks and pieced stocks back together. The end result is a real nice shooting original (for the most part) firearm.

I also shoot an original 1860 Colt army revolver. There are a lot of these floating around (like mine) that have mis-matched numbers, and therefore are shuned by collectors, but make great shooters. I have always liked old Colts, and am always getting razed by my teammates about the "weeker Colt" and all its problems as compared to the Remington's or Rogers & Spencer. One of the things I have learned from shooting an original anything is how bad some reproductions are made. This could not be any truer then with a Colt. As a matter of fact, I think many problems that Colts have are because people only have reproductions to judge them by. When you shoot a properly working original Colt you will notice a lot of difference. The first of which is a very strong main spring. This helps the hammer stay down after firing and thus keep the spent caps from getting jamed under it, and even if they do, it has enouhg power to crush them and still fire the next round.The hammer is as hard as a rock and will hold the same trigger pull for a long long time. The nipples are the right size, so the hammer doesn't beat them to death. You can tap the barrel wedge in tight and not lock up the cylinder.The barrel, on the 1860, has gain twist rifling, and best of all the loading stays up, by itself.

Don't get me wrong, I own my share of reproductions. My favorite is my Walker, you won't find an original one of these cheep at a gun show, if you find one at all, and after some work it now shoots great. I'm glad that there are companies making repo's, and for the price for the price they sell them. I'm sure they know that thest guns will not be used every day and that is why they pay more attention to finish then fit.
I hope I didn't bore you with my rambling. just my two cents.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Lucky you, that one is beautiful. I will have to agree with O.S.O.K., maybe shoot it a few times with light loads just to say you shot it, then clean very well and retire it to a prominent display location.

 

[mykeal]

From a qualified nerd (engineer) - no offense taken, in fact, I'm rather proud...

Embrittlement is not an issue with any of the steels used in either the original or the current reproduction bp guns. Corrosion is far and away the most important thing to be concerned about, and from the looks of that R&S, you don't have that problem.

Enjoy your trophy.

 

[Jdzara]

I have a Rogers & Spencer that was converted to
.44 American cartridges.
I have shot reloads with 20gr. FFG BLACK POWDER,
with no ill effects. Never use smokeless in any pre 1900 gun.

Jerry

 

[Tight_Wad]

Thanks to all for your informative replies.

It seems the safety of shooting of originals is not often mentioned. As it happens, I also have the Pedersoli repro version of the R&S which I use for matches and general shooting. The original still has about 90% blue, though it has flaked somewhat on the barrel. The bore is pristine and every bit as good as the 21st century repro; the cylinder still locks up tight as a drum. As far as fit & finish is concerned, I'd have to give it to the original - though the Pedersoli is an excellent gun.

As you can see from the pictures, they are prety much identical apart from the taller front sight and sandblasted finish of the repro. The repro is also slightly lighter by about 3oz or 4oz according to my kitchen scales.

Pedersoli Match

Rogers & Spencer

Great web site - keep talking!

Tight Wad :hatsoff:

 

[Geraldo]

I have always believed that guns were made to shoot, not hang on a wall. So to me the question is philosophical. Did you buy it to look at and do you hope that it retains or increases in value? If so, don't shoot it. Do you believe that guns are for shooting and the stock market is for investing? If so, and if it is in good condition, shoot it and forget the potential cost. If it breaks, fix it, just as someone would have if they had bought it new.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Agree with the above remarks about period steel. Without visible corrosion, the gun's steel shouldn't have deteriorated. The Rogers & Spencer's revolvers weren't issued during the "War" so it's not uncommon to find really nice guns. I'd be willing to shoot it if it were mine, and do so without worry. Just don't try to set velocity records, modern powder has higher working pressures than that of a century and a half ago. I'd try FFg in about 25 to 30 grains ranges till the gun shot it's best groups.