Shot Pattern Question

[Bookie]

Gentlemen, I ordered all 3 Circle Fly wads for my .62 wheellock so I can use it turkey hunting next month. Never have used these products before, so perhaps you can assist. If I have an "open" spot :cursing: in my pattern, can it be caused by the thick cushion wad? If so, would reducing the thickness help? (Powder is 68 grs. of FFG and 1 1/4 oz. of shot.) Thanks, guys. Bookie

 

[Dave K]

Yes, thin down the cushion. I have all mine at about 1/2 thickness or about 1/4" thick, may even want to cut the 1/2" cushions into 3rds. All you really want this cushion to do, is hold lube to keep the fouling soft. For turkey hunting, try just using an over powder card and no cushion. Yes, fouling will be a little crustier, but you can get it reloaded ok after just a shot or two.

 

[hazens ranger]

I have not shot a lot of shot mostly round ball. I did have this same problem working up a dove load in my bess .75 cal. cutting the fiber wad in half solved the problem and greatly improved my pattern.I found a piece of pipe the perfect diameter for my .62 cal fowler to cut cardboard cards I use thin screw or nail boxes I bring home from work however I have only shot this load 9 times 3 sets of three with 3 different powder charges for the feb shoot here on the forum. thats my experience with shot so far hope it helps

 

[BS]

It is my understanding that the over the shot card is the culprit of holes in the pattern, not the wads behind the shot.

 

[jdixon]

I have never heard that the over shot cards were responsible for this. Seems to me that they are too thin and light to have any large effect. The thick Circle Flys, especially the ones soaked in Bore Butter weigh several grams and are dense enough to be propelled into the shot column in flight. It is these wads that I have always thought causes the donut pattern. I too have had to cut these wads down to prevent this from happening. I am also now experimenting with styrofoam cushions on top of the over-powder card. I am cutting .78" (10 ga.)X 1" wads with a hunk of copper water pipe that has had one end sharpened. These are working well so far. Not ready to say they are the way to go but, these cushions look like they are going to give me the tightest groups yet.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Bookie, cut your cushion wad in 1/2 or eliminate it all together, or go with a felt cushion wad. Don't be afraid to go up to 1 1/2 OZ shot and 90 grains or so of powder. More powder and more shot = gooder patterns :thumbsup:

 

[BS]

Bookie, cut your cushion wad in 1/2 or eliminate it all together, or go with a felt cushion wad. Don't be afraid to go up to 1 1/2 OZ shot and 90 grains or so of powder. More powder and more shot = gooder patterns :thumbsup:

Cut them in half or nearly quarter them and see what happens. Like Mike said, don't be afraid to add more powder or shot.

More reading on wads and cards, everbody has there own ideas.

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/190959/

 

[J.D.]

I have had the best luck with 1 and 1/2 more shot than powder, by volume, with only one .135 over powder card, shot, and a 1/8 inch slice of fiber wad, over shot.

I have had bad experiences with the thin over shot wads moving and allowing the shot to roll out of the muzzle. Yeah, I shot at a turkey with only a card wad. :cursing:

The thicker slice of felt wad holds the shot in place and appears to break up on firing, giving consistent patterns.

The 1 and 1/2 more shot to powder ratio is a place to begin. IMHO, more shot works much better than less.
J.D.

 

[Bookie]

Thanks for all the info, guys. It is appreciated very much. Looks like there'll be a lot of experimenting going on Monday morning. Cheers, Bookie :hatsoff:

 

[roundball]

Large cushion wads driving into the shot charge creating a doughnut pattern:
[url] http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs/starr.htm[/url]

 

[BS]

Roundball,
Thanks for the Link, it's a long one! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Leonredbeard]

Bookie,
If you are using such a light charge behind that much shot, you should be okay. You may have to aim higher to get your load where you want it. In the larger sizes of shot more powder and more shot is okay, but not for smaller shot like 7 1/2 or 8's. Your load will kill turkey to reasonable yardage if your shot are #4, even 5's, but not smaller. Let us all know how your shooting goes, including the pattern with the whole thickness of fiber wad.
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[paulvallandigham]

JD: Try using the next larger card size. ie., if you are using a 12 ga, then order 11 ga wads and cards. I found in a 20 I have that the barrel is a little oversized, enough that I could not get good compression with any 20 ga. wads, cards, cushions, etc. I went to 19 ga. everything, and cured the problem. I like to split my cushion wads, after they are lubricated, to reduce their weight, and make them fall away from the patter sooner. I get two shots for each cushion wad, which just happens to work fine in my double barrel.

 

[riarcher]

Tried a bunch of combos in my Bess (11ga.) last summer and ended up dumping the cushion wad.
Instead, I've settled on a over powder, finger full of lube (BB or Bee's Wax & olive oil), then anouther overpowder wad.
At the pattern board I do find where the wads hit, however, the shot pattern is intact leaving me to believe the wads are only following the shot and not blowing through.
The 68 gr. to 1 1/4 shot sounds a bit,,, unbalanced (?) to me. But if it's working, good enough. I'm using 95 gr. (2Fg.) with 1 3/8 for duck & geese. 1 1/8 w/ 80 gr on close things like pheasants, and squirrels.
Experimentation is definately called for.
Loading this way my fouling stays nice and soft. After 2 - 25 rounds at sporting clays I was still shooting and loading with no signs of objectionable bore fouling and cleaned up nicely. Trick is don't spare the lube.
Perhaps the hydraulic action of all that lube between the wads is doing something positive on cushioning the shot? Maybe for BP a cushion is anouther old wives tale? I've no clue,, but it works.
Lubed felt & fiber wads were a miserable waste of time & money in my case.

 

[J.D.]

paulvallandigham,
I do shoot 11 ga wads. The over shot wads were made of cereal boxes using a .750 punch.

I have no confidense in those thin wads when traipsing up and down these Ozark hills. The slice of felt works real well and saves time now that I don't have to punch those OS wads. :thumbsup:
Thanks,
J.D.

 

[Bookie]

Riarcher,
Thanks for your working loads info. All appreciated. The load I mentioned was one that was suggested I try. Been building rifles since 1974, but never was a shot gunner, so this business is sorta foreign to me, (but still a welcome departure from the hog rifle business). :grin: Bookie

 

[Bookie]

Gentlemen, I offer this photo of a shot pattern fired this A.M.. No holes or donuts in the pattern as you can see. It it rather lop-sided to the right due to a sighting error, but the majority of the pellets struck the two foot circle. Only 28 pellets failed to hit paper and they were almost all to the right side. 80 grs. of FFG and 1 1/2 oz. of #4 shot. Guess I can get a turkey with this load providing I aim better. :haha: Thank you for the assistance. :bow: Bookie

 

[Mike Brooks]

good pattern, What distance?

 

[Bookie]

25 yards, Mike. Thanks for the advise. Cheers, Bookie

 

[roundball]

25yd shot pattern on a 9" paper plate.

.62cal Flint smoothbore/jug choked Full/1 O/P card/1+5/8oz #6's/1 O/S card