Shot the Philly Derringer today to check penetration.

[morehops52]

I built the derringer from a Traditions kit. I bought it for a camp gun and a novelty. I only shot it a couple of times but I've wondered what it could do for it's intended purpose, which I consider to be a "belly gun". So with the idea that this is a last line of defense to be used at just beyond an assailants reach, I scrounged what I thought would give me a target for a (non-scientific) indication of penetration. I had just received some large artwork and I had multiple sheets of corrugated cardboard plus the box. I added a piece of T-111 picked from the neighbors scrap pile and headed down the river bank.
The target ended up being 7 sheets of cardboard, a piece T-111, plus 2 more layers of cardboard. All in front of a old stump. To keep it simple I just used a charge of 20gr fffg. Then 30gr and 40gr. 1 shot each and check penetration after each shot. I used a .440 RB with a tight patch fired from about 3-4 feet..
SHOT 1 - 20gr Hit close to mark. Penetration : 5 sheets cardboard. Almost no deformation of RB
SHOT 2 - 30gr Hit 2 in from mark. Penetration: 7 sheets cardboard and almost thru T-111. Front flattened on RB.
SNOT 3 - 40gr Hit 3 in from mark Penetration: Passed thru all but did not embed in stump. RB not found.
So what does this all prove? Nothing more that it's great to create smoke and have fun on a beautiful fall day! No need to discuss whether this is a good choice of armament or not. Obviously there are better choices. But I can tell you that at 40gr the boom and recoil is serious enough to get your attention and be glad that you're on the right side of the muzzle!

 

[deermanok]

Sounds like that little gun has some power.

 

[russellshaffer]

So much for the theory that too much powder is just wasted in short barrels. You should try that 40 grain load at night.

 

[morehops52]

Just an eyeball measurement but it looked like about 2 inches of barrel left above the 40gr load.

 

[azmntman]

Photos please

 

[morehops52]

Sounds like that little gun has some power.

I must admit that it surprised me. I shoot maxis in my rifles, so when I was loading that "puny" 440 RB it looked more like a large BB to me.

 

[morehops52]

Photos please

Sorry, I did think of that but I just wanted some fun time at the river and forego the photos. I'll keep it in mind for future posts though.

 

[Eutycus]

I am tempted about using a derringer as a belly gun for self defense. It sure fits in the pocket really well. Please tell us "country folk" what a T-111 is?

 

[azmntman]

Wood siding

photos of derringer??

 

[morehops52]

I am tempted about using a derringer as a belly gun for self defense. It sure fits in the pocket really well. Please tell us "country folk" what a T-111 is?

T-111 is a wood based product mostly seen in sheds around here. Similar to plywood but thinner and it usually has some design on it's surface to make it more aesthetic. I would guess what I used was about 3/16" thick.
Do keep in mind that most belly guns were only meant as a deterrent. If used on an assailant it's meant mostly to give you enough time to get away from the threat and not render a kill shot. That certainly depends on size of load and shot placement.
I really liked the Liege derringer but the screw barrel design limited the powder charge to more of a noise maker than a defensive piece. JMO.

 

[morehops52]

Wood siding

photos of derringer??

i'll try to post some later. It's at my camp right now. It also ain't much to look at. I did not inlay the side escutcheons because I just wanted a shooter not a looker. I also left it in "the white".

 

[flntlokr]

We sometimes have derringer shoots at rendezvous. Usually set up with a card table with a cut-out plywood 'gambler ' (Black Bart) opposite. the shooter. You sat with cards in your shooting hand, loaded but not cocked derringer on the table in front of you. The shooter is required to call out somethig about Bart being a rotton cheat (or something). As soon as you open your mouth, the Bart's gun starts to rise; you have only 4 0r 5 seconds to drop yourcards,grab your gun, cock, aim?, and fire. If the Bart;'s eyes light; you were too slow and lost. Sometimes an elimination event, sometimes scored on a targets which were hung on Bart's chest. I usually used an antique screw-barrel .36, and the balls often bounced of Bart's plywood chest. Screw barrel chambers are pretty small.

 

[azmntman]

Ya, I had a screw barrel in the book gun I got somewhere cheap. Son liked it and took it (only bp gun he had interest in lol). Anyway, bang and duck, it wouldn't penetrate nothin. I guess ya had to be a crack shot and hit between the eyes an knock yer adversary out??

 

[JEBMs]

Maybe short on science but long on fun.
When SHTF a small gun is far better than no gun. To paraphrase Masaad Ayoob, it is very hard to remember your primary objective when you are dealing with a sucking chest wound

 

[sheriff john]

"So ....Missus Lincoln, other than that, how'd you like the play?"

J.W. Booth must've been at point-blank range or Ole Abe just wasn't lucky. Regardless, the question of whether or not a Derringer was capable of deadly use was settled right quick.

Thanks for posting this stuff. Always wanted to shoot one of those. Never did.

 

[SOLANCO]

I like the Philadelphia derringer for play. For personal EDC I will take something with the primer integral to the cartridge.

 

[morehops52]

We sometimes have derringer shoots at rendezvous. Usually set up with a card table with a cut-out plywood 'gambler ' (Black Bart) opposite. the shooter. You sat with cards in your shooting hand, loaded but not cocked derringer on the table in front of you. The shooter is required to call out somethig about Bart being a rotton cheat (or something). As soon as you open your mouth, the Bart's gun starts to rise; you have only 4 0r 5 seconds to drop yourcards,grab your gun, cock, aim?, and fire. If the Bart;'s eyes light; you were too slow and lost. Sometimes an elimination event, sometimes scored on a targets which were hung on Bart's chest. I usually used an antique screw-barrel .36, and the balls often bounced of Bart's plywood chest. Screw barrel chambers are pretty small.

Yep from what I have read most of the screw barrel chambers hold about 10gr of powder. Pretty anemic.

 

[mushka]

when those little guns were in vogue mostly all you had to do was wound. Infection would kill more than the ball did. Back in those days one didn't want to get shot with anything.

 

[Rifleman1776]

at 40gr the boom and recoil is serious

Yes, little pistolas do that. My no-no carry must be aimed at belly button, or lower, to hit in the chest region, even from a range of 5 to7 feet.

 

[cynthialee]

mainly used as a gut gun
you press it up against the bad guy and let fly, much more deadly than at 5 yards

Booth likely had his pistol an inch or 2 from the Presidents skull when he fired that fateful shot.