Shot the Philly Derringer today to check penetration.

[Eutycus]

I understand the ball Booth used was made of Britannia metal which is a pewter like alloy and much harder than lead.

He did get some penetration out of it, a few more grains of powder and the ball may have exited.

 

[hawkeye2]

That's possible, of course we'll never know what his charge or granulation was.

 

[Eutycus]

The bullet that killed Lincoln is housed in the National Museum of Health and Medicine in Silver Spring, Maryland. According to a Dr. Stone it was a "leaden-handmade ball flattened somewhat in it's passage through the skull".It measures 43.75 mm and is composed of a mixture of antimony, tin, copper, and soft lead.

 

[Eutycus]

While reading about the Lincoln assassination I came across this bit of trivia that I wasn't aware of. An army surgeon named Charles Leale was the first on the scene.After searching Lincoln's body for a knife wound He then performed mouth to mouth on Lincoln. I wasn't aware that procedure was in use back then.

 

[Eutycus]

That's possible, of course we'll never know what his charge or granulation was.

We will also never really know how Booth loaded his gun. No wads were found on the scene nor inside of Lincoln's body.

 

[SDSmlf]

Just out of my own curiosity, I put a 40 grain (by volume) charge of 4F in one of my CVA Derringers, with .440 patched ball on top of the charge. From the top of the ball to the muzzle I measure about 1-5/8”. Chronograph is down for the count so I couldn’t check velocity, but doubt all that much is generated in such a short barrel. Obviously, needs to be confirmed.

 

[Dave Fox]

I believe a doctor repeatedly inserted his finger in the entrance wound in Lincoln's skull to relieve pressure caused by clotting. In my little museum in my town's old courthouse I have a modest display relating to the Lincoln assassination. It includes newspapers with an announcement of the shooting and of Booth's death, a pair of sliding-temple reading glasses like Lincoln had in his pocket, a wallet and $5.00 Confederate note identical to the contents of Lincoln's wallet, a British William Jackson Rio Grande Camp Knife identical to the one Booth used to stab Major Henry Rathbone immediately after shooting Lincoln, and, of course, a Deringer very like the murder weapon.

 

[Robby]

Eutycus, are you sure about that bullet measurement?
43.75 Millimeters = 1.72244094488 Inches
Robby

 

[nick_1]

Garfield died of infection from a gunshot would that would have been treated and released from the ER today. there was a great program about that on NPR. Apparently some famous surgeon of the day had written an article in the medical journals and was going around lecturing that surgeons needed to wash their hands and that dirt caused infections. He even testified before congress. Naturally he was ridiculed by many of his peers who all had an inflated opinion of their own knowledge. This theory caused a huge stir in the medical world and it was right in the middle of that row that Garfield's shooting happened. They sent someone running for the doctor who then went out to his stable and tacked up his horse and buggy . picked up the reigns that were laying on the ground in the horse **** and drove like a bat out of hell to the hotel. He probably even picked his nose that morning,, we don't know if he ate the bugger. We do know that he then stuck his unwashed finger in the bullet hole looking for the bullet. A move that with todays knowledge would be considered an assination attempt. The irony being that the cutting edge technology of the day would have saved Garfield's life had it been used. The knowledge was there . it was in the forefront of medical debate at the time but there were bitterly divided opinions as to its validity.

 

[Eutycus]

Eutycus, are you sure about that bullet measurement?
43.75 Millimeters = 1.72244094488 Inches
Robby

Sorry I was just repeating what I saw in a display case. It is not my intention to spread false information. Thank you for

bringing it to my attention. Maybe I should have left off the "mm"?

 

[hawkeye2]

A 44mm Derringer, I want one! Probably .44"

 

[Eutycus]

Booth must have

had a fairly heavy load of powder. The bullet seems to have flattened or expanded somewhat

 

[russellshaffer]

In a close range defense situation I would think that the more blast, smoke and flash the better. You only have one shot so make it as impressive as possible.

 

[Eutycus]

In a close range defense situation I would think that the more blast, smoke and flash the better. You only have one shot so make it as impressive as possible.

Plus it may get your adrenaline pumping too. In that "fight or flight" situation you just may gain that split second you need.

 

[toot]

Not aboard on using a percussion pistol as backup. Most flint pocket pistols, problematical because their tiny flints and priming charges made discharge haphazard, at least had a safety, a sliding lever that both locked the center-hung hammer and frizzen in place and had to be released before the weapon could be discharged (see photograph). I don't recall seeing such a device on any percussion derringer-like weapon. So: one thrusts a capped percussion pistol in ones pocket either at half cock or hammer down on a sensitive cap and muzzle likely pointed at ones crotch. See any problem there?

no. it will set your voice up an OCTIVE, THOUGH! a smooth crotch!

 

[toot]

Just out of my own curiosity, I put a 40 grain (by volume) charge of 4F in one of my CVA Derringers, with .440 patched ball on top of the charge. From the top of the ball to the muzzle I measure about 1-5/8”. Chronograph is down for the count so I couldn’t check velocity, but doubt all that much is generated in such a short barrel. Obviously, needs to be confirmed.

that doesn't seem to be much rifling to start the ball spinning? out of the barrel very fast.

 

[45man]

It is true that too much powder in a short barrel is wasted and burns out front but the powder weight adds to the ball weight and pressures go up. How much it affects penetration I don't know but testing with a chronograph has shown at a certain point of adding more powder, velocity will drop a lot. We actually had unburned powder exit to start grass on fire.

 

[Capnball]

I am tempted about using a derringer as a belly gun for self defense. It sure fits in the pocket really well. Please tell us "country folk" what a T-111 is?

Plywood exterior siding

 

[smoothshooter]

I built the derringer from a Traditions kit. I bought it for a camp gun and a novelty. I only shot it a couple of times but I've wondered what it could do for it's intended purpose, which I consider to be a "belly gun". So with the idea that this is a last line of defense to be used at just beyond an assailants reach, I scrounged what I thought would give me a target for a (non-scientific) indication of penetration. I had just received some large artwork and I had multiple sheets of corrugated cardboard plus the box. I added a piece of T-111 picked from the neighbors scrap pile and headed down the river bank.
The target ended up being 7 sheets of cardboard, a piece T-111, plus 2 more layers of cardboard. All in front of a old stump. To keep it simple I just used a charge of 20gr fffg. Then 30gr and 40gr. 1 shot each and check penetration after each shot. I used a .440 RB with a tight patch fired from about 3-4 feet..
SHOT 1 - 20gr Hit close to mark. Penetration : 5 sheets cardboard. Almost no deformation of RB
SHOT 2 - 30gr Hit 2 in from mark. Penetration: 7 sheets cardboard and almost thru T-111. Front flattened on RB.
SNOT 3 - 40gr Hit 3 in from mark Penetration: Passed thru all but did not embed in stump. RB not found.
So what does this all prove? Nothing more that it's great to create smoke and have fun on a beautiful fall day! No need to discuss whether this is a good choice of armament or not. Obviously there are better choices. But I can tell you that at 40gr the boom and recoil is serious enough to get your attention and be glad that you're on the right side of the muzzle!

What is T-111 ?

 

[Capnball]

What is T-111 ?

It's cheap exterior sheathing/siding. Most wood sheds are covered with it. Usually 1/2" but I've also seen much thicker stuff to.