Sight Pic. (pt. 2) your suggestions.

[riarcher]

Taking the suggestions from original "Sight Picture" post, I felt the easiest 1st thing to try wouldbe increase the charge.
Went from 70 to 90 gr. and smoked them patches really bad! Not to be outdone (boyscout daze) I tried a nitro and 1/2 of a 11 ga. fiber wad. Wow! The shot went considerably highter. Increased to 100 gr. and like a miracle I started hitting using the cheek for my anchor.
Not thinking I really needed both cards, I eliminated first one, then the other. And I couldn't hit squat again ( :.
Interestingly, with the flash hole plugged these went home with some resistance and I started loading really slow to let the compressed air escape. Then I noticed a slight resistance (I'll call it a "bump") way down just before the ball seated. The load slid down nice and smooth until just about 1/4" from seating. Then felt some resistance (not much, but definately noticable) then when past, it felt "normal again. Kind of puzzled the manure out of me as to what it was.
Going down range to check the patches I found some really burnt up patching probably from the non-wad loads. Then I found some very clean patches (wadded loads?) but on closer examination They all had this same sized cut on them about 3/16 - 1/4" in length, crescent shaped. Assuming this is from that "bump" I'm feeling while loading. It's not from the muzzle as my balls start with fairly light thumb presure and I started some and pulled them with the patch and they look fine.
Loaded a few more times with both wads, did not feel this "bump" (probably not seating as far with the wads) and accuacy was right there with the expected "sight picture" ::
Now I'm wondering what the heck can this "bump" be in my Pedersoli 2nd model Bess? Could it be the end of the breach plug? A poor job at relieving the flash hole inside the bore?
Wondering if it is possible that whatever is cutting my patch is also nicking my balls?
Have to admit, I'm VERY shocked to find that this nick/bump seems to have such a drastic effect on the Point of Impact! even at only 15 yds. :hmm:
At least I seem to have found the problem (sorta), now what to do about it?
Thanks to all for placing me on the path of enlightment to this problem. Can I join the school of "Zen Musketry" now?
:hatsoff:

 

[Grenadier1758]

Often a ring of fouling will form just above the seating location. Do you have this resistance after you have cleaned the gun? Often I can get rid if the fouling ring by wiping the bore between shots. I know this is not always possible when shooting military style matches. The fact that it is cutting your patch is worth thinking about. You need to determine if this resistance is there when the barrel is clean. If it is then I would wonder what is in the bore. The touch hole should be almost at the breech face and not as far up the barrel as you are noticing the restriction.

The use of the card and the cushion wad will help seal the bore and also work to reduce some of the fouling ring. Now you can nick the edge of your card to let air flow past the wad for easier loading. You can also score an air path on the cushion wad. These little nicks won't effect you shooting accuracy any and will make loading a lot easier.

 

[Java Man]

RI,

I usually pick the touch hole after loading, then you won't restrict air from flowing through when loading. My touch hole pick is glued to the inside of my priming horn plug.

Like Grenadier stated, you are probably getting a fouling ring, and you might need the wads to shoot well for whatever reason.

I'd check that area real carefully with a wet, very tight patch on your cleaning jag, when the barrel is clean, and see if you feel the same "catch".

Good luck, sounds like you are having fun.

Gregg

 

[musketman]

A poor job at relieving the flash hole inside the bore?

If it was the flash hole ripping the patch, the gun would not fire because the patch would block the hole into the breech area and the gas from the priming charge would be kept from entering...

Could be a metal sliver from the breech plug, I suggest lapping the bore all the way down to the back of the breech plug and back up to the muzzle (one stroke)...

50 to 100 strokes with a lapping compound and a tight cleaning patch to start with, try the gun again and re-lap the bore if necessary...

Just because it's a smoothbore doesn't mean you shouldn't lap the bore, there is "chatter" from drill bits that can be removed, performance will only benefit from lapping...

 

[Hoyt]

Often a ring of fouling will form just above the seating location.

My .62 smooth bore does that..its smoothes out when I clean it.

 

[riarcher]

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! (and yes, I did yell THANK YOU!)
You're all correct (or so it seems :applause.

Java Man -
You the same Java Man that does them Osage charecter longbows that I spoke with a couple years back?
I can't leave the vent unplugged. My 3Fg. runs right out the .101 hole. Well, actually I could, and have. Amazingly enough it seems to self prime the pan with darn close to about 1 1/2 gr. (apears to be just about right - I think?)

"Ring of crud" IS the winner. :curse:

Honestly, heard of, but never acually whitnessed one first hand. 'Till now. I've had "soot rings (?)" which are soft and sometimes greasy like. But never like a cement wall! Definately not enough to cut (withstand) a compressed patch. :shocking: I honestly thought you guys were talking my "soot Rings" (no way would they cut,,,,(?) :hmm

Musket, Lapping, Definately (now)! :thumbsup:
I had a lot of tight / loose areas with a tight patch. I just lucked out there. :: My jag is .720. Actually just .003 over my cast (.717) balls. Couldn't get the jag down to the plug until I said " :curse:", and "thumped her" good and proper. Then it was "real better, real quick". :: Been "fresh out of lapin c'pound for a few years now :winking:. Looked around and decided to try "Semi-chrome" and ticking. Seems to have had the desired effect. :front:
Still some "draggin" areas, not really tight, just a more noticable drag. Gonna get a bore light first though. Want to see what I've got.

I'm "syced"! This is the most fun I've had with a gun, bow, or boat in a long time. :thumbsup:

Grenadine- Would rather not have to deal with the card thing to be honest. Just more ,,,, stuff to carry. I'm looking forward to all self contained paper cartridge for ball and shot (but not together :hmm I hear penny wrapers are usefull(?).

Hoyt - exactly! (or at least what I was thinking )

This was only the third time I've had it out (Lots of rain in N.E. in the spring) and probably not much over 60 shots. This "sight picture" being so high has been since the first shot when I just got it. I've cleaned it 4-5 times in 2 weeks ( :hmm: Sic. isn't it? :redface I always clean 'til the patches come out as clean as new, Then BB the manure out of it. That ring was ,,,,,, NON-dissolving! Really. If I can duplicate the double wad load's accuacy I'll be satisfied,,,, (well for the week anyways :

Thanks,, and :hatsoff:
Gary

 

[Java Man]

Gary,

Yep, that's me. Have switched over to the dark side, and making all glass lam bows now. No wheels though.

Sounds like you are having a blast :RO: with your new bess. Can't wait till my Fusil arrives in a couple months maybe.

Gregg
(Longbows and Flintlocks Forever)

 

[Rat]

Yes lapping, polishing, or whatever you want to call it, you will find that your bore will foul less the more smooth it is. Lots of different ways to do it, I worked my bore over (on my Bess) quite a bit with some fine steel wool and lots of oil on the jag. With the steel wool and oil you really have to work it over for hours...maybe a patch and lapping compound or chrome polish would be more better. ??

::

You may find that a Wonder Wad under the ball will have the same effect as using the nitro and cushion wads, and be a bit more convinient (sp?) to use and carry.

:hmm:

I've tried fffg in my Bess, but as you found it really runs out the touch hole...but otherwise works great. Tried fg but that really smokes the patches (without a Wonder Wad) and fouls badly. Found that ffg is "just right", only a few grains come out the touch hole, and it does not burn the patches. For some reason, in my gun, fg seems to have the fastest ignition...so, when loading for a hunt I'll put about ten grains or so of fg in first, then the rest of the charge in ffg. I'm thinking that it's mostly my imagination though.

:youcrazy:

Rat

 

[Rebel]

If you take your overpowder wad and fiber cushion wad, and Glue them together before putting lube on the cushion wad, you only have 1 wad/combo to mess with, instead of two seperate wads. Works good for me.

 

[mike alexandre]

The Bess I bought second hand as a re enactment gun is now a good target musket due to being spill bored. There was a neck in the middle of the barrel of possibly .006. Once this was removed it loaded and shot like a goodun. The gun is over 30 years old and had been kept as a re enactment weapon because it wouldnt shoot properly.

 

[riarcher]

Went back to the range today.
Had a new "sooty-crud ring" after every shot.
Fairly hard stuff, but definately not the cement like the other day. Worked it out each time with windex, took about 1 minute each. Better, but not satisfactory.
Wads made me feel fine until I got 2 holes with 1 shot. :curse: Fiber wads were getting stuck to the patch and I'm assuming, the added weight followed the ball.
Anyways, definately better, but not there yet.
Went to the City and got 2 lb. 2Fg Goex and more BB. When I got home after dinner I found a pair of really old jeans and mic'd them at .026 (.021 compressed) Tried them in the bore with a ball and it's a "Starter Req'd" thing but workable.
My sight picture did come down considerably today though and that is a plus. And did get a better group towards the end. Still room for improvement though.
I'm hoping the slowed ignition will burn for more distance in the barrel and help with the crud ring. Hoping the tighter patching w/ BB will reduce the burning of patches along with the 2Fg.
I'll find out tomorrow.
After the semi-chrome the load slides in real easy, posibly too easy in fact.
I'll let you all know how I make out.
Thanks for the "tips", they've all been a definate plus. :redthumb:

 

[ffffg]

fiber wad over powder and under patched ball should put the crud ring well under the ball and make it a non problem.. dont worry about the fiber wad hitting the target becouse when you have proper backing behind the target at 25 yards it wont couse trouble.. proper fiber wads are very soft, made of celotex or like material.. if your fiber wads are hard look for another source to try.. if your haveing hard fouling promlems in summer try neatsfoot oil and get the patch sloppyeruntill it loads easily..winter will require a nonfreezeing lube like thompsons tc lube.. i dont like tc lube in summer as waxy lubes change properties as it melts when it gets hot out and varies the velocitie when it turns to liquid.(faster for me). but i wanted a consistnet summer lube.. .. your on the right track and will be an old timer too soon.. dave