Single set trigger - how early?

[ChrisPer]

The Gunsmith of Grenville County has a nice discussion of single set triggers and making them, but says only one or two he was aware of were used on American long rifles.
Over on the FB Matchlock and Wheellock group, someone is asking when the first single set triggers were used. His friend, a museum curator in Europe, has rifles that he says are 1730 with single set triggers, yet the only book he has dates them from well into the 1800s.

I recall mentions of single set triggers in duelling pistols and a suggestion that they might have been an advantage to the owner who knew how to set them in a duel.
Anyone know a dateable rifle or pistol with single set triggers? It seems a very target-oriented idea, maybe Schuetzen matches in German states might be the first users?

 

[dave_person]

Hi Chris,
The famous pair of Twigg rifles shown in Neal and Back's "Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790) have single set triggers. Those rifles were made in 1779. Fully evolved English dueling pistols by 1780 often had single set triggers. Some of these triggers had external trigger pull adjustment screws and others were permanently adjusted by the gunsmith. John George in his book on English pistols and revolvers states that before British makers starting putting set triggers on dueling pistols in the 1780s, the mechanism was long known and used on the continent for target pistols. He does not state single set triggers, however he was referring to that type when making this statement.
Interestingly, old Joe Manton usually did not feel his dueling pistols needed set triggers.

dave

 

[Elnathan]

There is a Revolutionary period straight-rifle by J.P Beck with a single set trigger in RCA.

 

[ChrisPer]

Thanks gentlemen!

 

[waksupi]

I've had single set triggers on a few guns over the years. In every one, I could feel trigger creep before it tripped the sear. Unacceptable to me, and I won't use them anymore.

 

[Artificer]

I've had single set triggers on a few guns over the years. In every one, I could feel trigger creep before it tripped the sear. Unacceptable to me, and I won't use them anymore.

Ric,

I have been trying to remember if I ever shot a rifle or gun with a single set trigger and can't remember if I have. So please understand this is a question from curiosity.

Did the single set triggers you mentioned have creep in them both set and un-set?

Do you prefer shooting with double triggers on set over un-set?

Do you like triggers that are not adjustable, but still feel good?

Can you describe the creep you felt in the single set triggers you used? Was it felt during pressing the trigger or at the end of the press as the sear released the full **** notch?

Gus

 

[Col. Batguano]

I'm installing an L&R DASST on my current build. There doesn't seem to be any creep to it in set mode, but the hole for the pivot pin in the trigger blade is slightly over-sized, (giving it a bit of side to side rattle) and will need to be closed up some to stabilize it before final installation. I should be able to do that with silver or soft solder.

 

[M. De Land]

Bush it with steel and solder the bushing in if you want a good, long lasting repair.

 

[Artificer]

Not sure, but I wonder if drilling the hole for a larger pin that is hardened and better fit the hole in the trigger may be better?

Gus

 

[hawkeye2]

How early? Single set triggers were found on crossbows in the 1500's so the mechanism would have been known in this country before the beginning of the long rifle era though they would have been very uncommon.

 

[Col. Batguano]

In theory that would work, but that might upset the relationship with the set trigger catch, and there is only .005" of metal below the bottom of the 3/32" pin in the TP. Not really enough to take a chance with. Tightening up the trigger hole is really the best fix. They can be a little sloppy as they sit on both the non set blade, and the set blade, though tighter (and freely swinging) would of course be better. The hole in the parts really isn't that much too big, like only .003", but it's enough to give it a little bit of side to side rattle. I could live with it I think, but I'd rather not if I don't have to.

 

[Artificer]

Interesting, thanks for the explanation.

Yes, then it looks like M.D.'s suggestion to bush the hole in the trigger will be the best fix.

Gus

 

[Col. Batguano]

I should have explained how the L&R DASST is constructed. The TP is a pretty thick piece of metal with a pin through it. There re 3 parts with holes in them that hang on the pin; the set blade, the trigger, and the straight pull blade. Behind the set blade is a hook that grabs the set blade when the trigger is pushed forward and moves the set blade up against the big leaf spring, and gets it to catch in the hook when it's set. On the other side of the trigger is the straight pull blade. That is only engaged by the trigger when it's pulled back. Pulling the trigger back also exerts a force against the hook that holds the set blade. When the hook moves backwards enough, it releases the set blade, and the spring takes over and makes it smack the sear bar.

Here's a link to them, but the picture doesn't tell you a whole lot. https://www.lr-rpl.com/index.php?o...-1650-t-1675&catid=37:la-r-triggers&Itemid=65

 

[M. De Land]

After bushing the pin hole drill the new hole with and undersized numbered drill after spotting center in a drill press. Start the hole with a center drill and finish it with the undersized numbered drill, then make a hardened half profile pin reamer the diameter needed to ream the undersized drilled hole.Put a 45 degree taper on the reamer nose and ease it through by hand in the drill press quill.
A drilled hole is never perfectly round and must be reamed round to a snug slip fit for the trigger pin to eliminate side play.
A half reamer will cut as smoothly as a fluted reamer but much slower and takes more force to get it through but they are cheap, easy to make and work fine.
Every thing must be kept on center with the original trigger hole.
I'd make a snug slip fit bushing then red loc-tite it in the trigger,when set locate center of bushing them proceed as described.

 

[Rifleman1776]

How early? Single set triggers were found on crossbows in the 1500's so the mechanism would have been known in this country before the beginning of the long rifle era though they would have been very uncommon.

Yeppers. Ye took the words outa my mouth. :wink:

 

[waksupi]

I've had single set triggers on a few guns over the years. In every one, I could feel trigger creep before it tripped the sear. Unacceptable to me, and I won't use them anymore.

Ric,

I have been trying to remember if I ever shot a rifle or gun with a single set trigger and can't remember if I have. So please understand this is a question from curiosity.

Did the single set triggers you mentioned have creep in them both set and un-set?

Yes. I'm pretty sensitive to it, as I shot modern benchrest for many years.

Do you prefer shooting with double triggers on set over un-set?

If you know how to properly hang a single trigger, and tune a lock properly, a set trigger is unnecessary.

Do you like triggers that are not adjustable, but still feel good?

The only kind acceptable to me.

Can you describe the creep you felt in the single set triggers you used? Was it felt during pressing the trigger or at the end of the press as the sear released the full **** notch?

It is a barely perceptible movement, enough to make me throw a shot. It happens during the pressing of the trigger.




Gus