small bore shotguns

[lizardtrack]

Anyone shooting a small bore (410-.45)? What are your favorite loads and results? What does your gun weigh? What kind is it? Thanks

 

[paulvallandigham]

Because of the limits of velocity of black powder and shot loads, its rather rare to find any MLer shotguns in this country( Not Europe)chambered for any gauge smaller than 28( .550 caliber). The 28 gauge shoots nice patterns, delivers enough shot at short range( 25 yds) to take small game, and still does well shooting a PRB on occasion.

I don't know anyone personally, over the 50 years I have been shooting, that has a .410 or .45 caliber ML smoothbore, save one man who had an european made gun in his collection that was inoperable.

My brother owned a single shot, Stevens, .410 pistol chambered for the short cartridge, but it was sold before we ever fired it to see how it patterned. But that is a breechloader, not a muzzleloader. It was used to collect song birds for museum collections in the 19th century. John J. Audubon owned a similar gun which he used to harvest all kinds of birds for his Art Books.

My brother spent more than 10 years searching ads, and talking to builders all over the country about building him a LH smoothbore, discussed styles, calibers or gauges, etc. and he never found anyone making a smoothbore that small, either.

As light as the charges that the 28 throws( 1/2 oz and greater) what would be the purpose of owning such a BP mler shotgun??? I am sure that someone, someplace, has made smoothbore guns in all kinds of smallbore calibers. You just don't hear about them here, or in most places where shooters gather.

Sorry I could not be more helpful. Maybe some of the older members will be able to contribute something.

 

[robinghewitt]

I have a 40 bore ML, 34.5" barrel, weighs 3.45 pounds coincidentally, but can't say I shoot it much.

I reckoned it was a boy's gun until Mick Lund saw it and told me it was a specimen gun.

Designed for a gentleman student of taxidermy from around 1800 who wanted to bring down his quarry with minimum damage to pelt or plumage. I imagine the poor chap, already over burdened with all the paraphanalia of his hobby, wanting something fairly light.

OTOH it could have been entomology because the finest shot for these things was butterfly dust.

I shot it in to a muddy river in Arkansas once, it shoots straight with not a lot of spread :thumbsup:

 

[silverfox]

I have heard of double barrel 410 ML and seen pictures of one on one of the auctions.
Also heard small bore SB's were made and used in South America Jungles. I saw one a month ago at a local auction and the claim was it was from Brazil. It looks like a .410 and sold for $85
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Audubon's gun would have been a muzzleloader wouldn't it? Or perhaps some sort of pinfire breechloader? The 410 was first developed in the 1880s and Audubon died in 1851 so he wouldn't have used one of them.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yep> You are correct. I was not writing clearly. Audubon did use a very small bore shotgun with fine shot( #12?) to kill songbirds for his collection, for the Smithsonian Museum, and to use for his art books. The idea was to shock them to death with a close range hit, using fine shot that would break as few feathers and vanes as practical. I read somewhere that he used both a smoothbore shotgun, and a smoothbore pistol for this kind of work, with the pistol being used on the very small songbirds, and the shotgun being used on the larger species.

 

[Mike Brooks]

John Getz has a .50 smoothbore with a 51" barrel that he says shoots shot quite well. I had .55 smoothbore with a 48" barrel that was a champ of a shot shooter.
A M/L in .45 with a long barrel would probably be a nifty squirrel getter with about 7/8oz shot.

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

Anyone shooting a small bore (410-.45)? What are your favorite loads and results? What does your gun weigh? What kind is it? Thanks

I have a 56 cal. smooth bore and 16 gauge flint smooth bore.
56 cal. 80 grs. 2f 7/8 oz. of shot.
16 ga. 85 grs. 2f 1-1/4 oz.of shot.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

James Collins was 16 years old when the Revolutionary War broke out in South Carolina in 1780. He joined the militia with his Father. His first battle was Huck's Defeat in July of 1780. In his autobiography he describes using a " little
blue barreled shotgun" during this action. It sounds like a small smoothbore a 16 year old kid would be using for small game in 1780. Shortly after this he was given a captured loyalist longrifle that he used for the rest of the war.
I always wondered what his " little blue barreled
shotgun" looked like. He went on to use his new rifle at King's Mountain and Cowpens. A hell of a year for a 16 year old!
:thumbsup:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Dixie Gun Works used to sell a smallbore percussion single with 32" barrel which weighed about 4 pounds. Thirty years ago they sold for $19.95 and were about worth it. I had one in 32 gauge which I used as a stage prop for background in my mountainman poetry presentations. I fired it a few times and judged that with 1/2 ounce of shot it would have been effective at 20 yards or so. I currently have a .50 caliber underhammer smoothbore which also weighs about 4 pounds. It shoots OK but I really have no use for underhammers, don't know why I bought it nor why I still have it. :haha:

 

[texcl]

I saw a small .45cal boy's smooth rifle made by Al Edge I belive for sale at the NRA museum in 2001 or 2002 the description said it was a mock up of an original .45cal smooth boys rifle, it sure was sharp lookin.

 

[cable]

saw a cva double in 410 and did not buy it, but someone on this forum bought one,and was discussing it within the last year. i was too dubious about it to go for it.

 

[lizardtrack]

Here's some smoothies I built years ago. The top one is a .62 trade gun with an interchangable .54 barrel. the second one is a .45 smooth built to the top one's proportions. the lower is a perc. .45 smoothbore. Years ago Dixie was selling these little barrels for $15.00 ea. I believe they're Belgem made. I probably have $40 in ea. of the little ones. They do quite well out to about 20 yds. They're fun with RB too.

 

[dlpowell]

Paul,

Back in the 70's I bought a dbl 28 from Dixie for $100.00. Great little gun. Took some squirrels with it. Graduated to a navy Arms 12ga mag for not much more money and the little 28 went by the way side. I wish I had those guns today.

 

[dlpowell]

Mike,

I absolutely agree! Here in Oklahoma the smallest bp "shotgun" usable for deer is 20ga. So it serves double duty as do most.

 

[paulvallandigham]

A 28 gauge gun is a sweetheart in either BP, or modern cartridge guns. I have a cousin whose husband sold all his larger gauge shotguns after he bought a Ruger Red Label 20 ga. O/U. shotgun. He was not into reloading when I met him, and he had no experience with MLers. He was interested in what we had to say about using smoothbore MLers, but he had become a one gun man. He lives in S. Carolina where he can hunt quail, and still hunt ducks and geese along the coast. I don't know what he uses for migratory waterfowl, because I know you can't find much in non-toxic shot in the 28 gauge loads. I keep trying to get him to use a small bore Mlers, and if we every see the price of these newest Non-toxic shot come down to a reasonable amount, I may just be able to talk to him about using a 20 ga. MLer for ducks.

 

[Tinker2]

lizardtrack

You just jogged my memory, I have one of those kits that Dixie previously sold. I think that it is half round half octagon and in a .38 smooth bore? Smooth for sure, not anywhere near as big as a .410
Maybe I should find it




Tinker2

 

[cecil]

I got a little single barrel that was given to me a few years back, smoothie of course. About a 36-38 caliber, 30 inch barrel made in Brazil. I load it with 25 grain of 3F, a felt wad, 7/8 oz of # 6 shot with a cardbard cover. It does real well on rabbits and squirrels. My daughter loves it. Seen one like it on Gunbroker the other day for $100.00 and think my Father told me that they sold these through Dixie, but he couldn't remember the price. Neat little smoothie.

Willisburg

 

[lizardtrack]

Since these are a true .45 they are legal for deer in NY. It's great hunting with a 3 lb. or less gun. I limit my range to 10 yds. If I get that close then I put out my pipe load the gun and shoot him. :wink: Haven't shot a deer in 25 years but I love hunting them.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Now those are some neat guns! :thumbsup: Got any more photos?