Smith Carbine load question

[kh54]

Hi All. I just replaced the front sight on my Pietta Smith carbine and had the trigger worked on to correct the two problems that I've had shooting this gun, very high POI and very heavy trigger. I plan to work on some more load development at the range soon, but I do have a question about that. In the past I've been very careful to pack filler of cream of wheat (because that's what I have on hand) on top of the powder for small powder loads that won't completely fill the cartridge. But I'm wondering - is this even necessary? I just don't know enough about what happens when the powder ignites to know if the chamber, in this case the plastic or nylon cartridge case, has to be full of something to perform properly. Is there any danger or other issue if the powder is a bit loose? Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated.

 

[dave951]

I have a couple Smiths and yes, you will need filler in the cartridge for lower charge levels. First off, it's to help eliminate the airspace in the cartridge as the Smith action isn't the strongest. Second, it keeps the powder against the flash hole for reliable ignition. Third, it helps keep the bullet at the throat of the barrel for better accuracy.

 

[kh54]

@dave951, thanks! I guess it’s never been clear to me what the problem is if there’s some air in the combustion chamber of a black powder firearm, such as with a ball that hasn’t been fully seated on the powder in a muzzleloader, or in this case with air in the cartridge. Can you explain? (And please don’t use too many big words.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Folks before we get some complaints, the Smith Carbine is circa 1857 and uses an external cap but is not an inline.

LD

 

[appalichian hunter]

@dave951, thanks! I guess it’s never been clear to me what the problem is if there’s some air in the combustion chamber of a black powder firearm, such as with a ball that hasn’t been fully seated on the powder in a muzzleloader, or in this case with air in the cartridge. Can you explain? (And please don’t use too many big words.

Pressure spikes in the gap.

 

[kh54]

Thanks for that concise answer!!

 

[dave951]

@dave951, thanks! I guess it’s never been clear to me what the problem is if there’s some air in the combustion chamber of a black powder firearm, such as with a ball that hasn’t been fully seated on the powder in a muzzleloader, or in this case with air in the cartridge. Can you explain? (And please don’t use too many big words.

As pointed out, it's possible pressure spikes. With black powder, some arms aren't strong enough to contain and use that pressure. A Sharps is a completely different animal because in the world of black powder arms, it's probably the strongest action. All that keeps a Smith closed is that spring on the top slipped over a cleat. I've seen Smiths spring open from even moderate loads. However......
at the risk of getting flamed, the ball not seated completely on a moderate or light charge is not a pipe bomb on a stick unless the gun is a seriously weak one to start with in which case, I ain't shooting it in the first place. What will happen is there will be no accuracy, but the ball will exit the muzzle. If the barrel steel is a weak alloy or an antique weakened by age and wear, or there is some serious bubba design flaw, then some damage may occur and that will be cumulative and can lead ultimately to a failure. So in the world of muzzleloading, we urge safety by insisting the ball be seated on the powder charge to insure a consistent pressure rise that the gun was originally designed for.

And since we're speaking of failures, with all the shooting that goes on in the N-SSA there has only been 1 catastrophic failure of an original musket. In this case, the skirmisher was shooting powder he bought out of an estate (sorry but it never pays to be a cheapskate). Investigation revealed that the powder was in a can, it was black, so the person handling the estate thought why not pour in all the other partial cans of "black" powder to make a full can. Problem was the other "black" colored powder was smokeless. A serious instantaneous disassembly of an original Springfield resulted on the firing line. Fortunately, the only casualty was the undergarments of the skirmisher holding the gun at the time. That's why we stress safety and safety measures to ensure something like this doesn't occur.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

I also have a Pietta smith. I do believe they're the best black powder "truck gun" there is. I replaced the factory trigger spring with the coil type that Paul Gritmacker sells. It was a major improvement.

Are you using the factory sights? Which notch are you using and at what distance? Rear sight folded down or up?

I'm using the eras gone mold and not using a sizer. My mold drops them right at .518. I lube them and they go straight into the cartridge. They are the black nylon ones from Lodgewood. I use 35-40 grains of 3f when building my cartridges. I use no filler. It hits the 6" plate at 80 yards consistently. I have never checked the cartridge OAL, and it has never seemed to be an issue.

Looking forward to hearing about the performance results with the small charges, I've never loaded any with less than 35gr.

A big problem with loose powder in the cartridge of a Smith is that it can dribble out the back end and fill the fire channel with powder kernels. This will either cause a misfire, or a significant hang fire.

To remedy this, I put a 1/4" diameter punch out of a Zig Zag paper down over the fire hole before I pour the powder in. As long as the bullet doesn't migrate north too far, this keeps the powder in, and the fire has no trouble piercing it.