Smooth Bore Sight In

[GregC]

Hey all...I took my Tulle out to sight in yesterday and have some questions.

First, I forgot my patches so I loaded bare ball. I loaded 80 grns FFFG, over powder card, wad, ball, over shot card.

I had a nice 2.5" group at about 25 yards but it was 9" low.

My questions?

1) What is best range to sight in a smoothie? 25 yds, 50 yds, 75 yds.

2) Should I worry about the patches since I am getting good groups without them?

3) My front (and only) sight is very high. Filing it down will raise the point of impact? Correct?

Any other pointers?

Thanks

Greg

 

[musketman]

I would sight it in for 60 to 75 years myself, then anything from 0 to 80 yards should still be in the kill zone...

Before filing down your front sight, try placing a temperary rear sight on with superglue, a BB glued mid barrel will work fine...

Sounds like you are trying to shoot it like a rifle instead of a shotgun, a common mistake, try shooting it like you would a shotgun and see what that does for your groups...

I would save filing as a next-to-the-last resort, it is hard to replace metal once removed, the last resort in my opinion is to bend the barrel...

Please try a patched roundball and see if your groups raise before working on that front sight...

 

[Mike Brooks]

If it's shooting 9" low at 25 yards, barrel bending is in your future. Shooting 9" low is a common problem with an unsighted smooth bore, and bending is the only solution other than instaling a rear sight. I have some shotgun buddies that regulate double barrels by filing the muzzle.....I havn't tried it, but it does work.

 

[musketman]

On barrel bending, it is not as bad as it sounds, but it is time consuming...

First, you have to know which way to bend it...

Second, you have to know where to bend it along it's length...

Third, you have to know how much to bend it...

It only takes a small amount of flexing to move the point of aim and remove the barrel from the stock first...

You must take caution not to over-bend it, then you will need to bend it back the other way and that could weaken the metal...

 

[GregC]

Can a gunsmith bend my barrel? I don't think I want to try messing with that.

 

[Mike Brooks]

A "gunsmith" won't have a clue what you're talking about and will probably freak at the suggestion.
:shocking:
It's real simple to do. Take it out of the stock and find a sturdy crotch of a tree. stick it in at about the 1/2 way point and pull untill you feel it "give". put it back in the stock and see where it shoots. Repeat as necessary.

 

[CrackStock]

"Can a gunsmith bend my barrel? I don't think I want to try messing with that."

Good answer!

Take some more time and try to think of this as a shotgun rather than a rifle. Work on where your cheek should be each time and look over the barrel. This will lower the POI quite a bit. Learn that spot weld for your cheek once it starts working for you.

You can always bend the barrel later, but I would try to learn the gun first.

CS

 

[rschissler]

Take some more time and try to think of this as a shotgun rather than a rifle.

I've heard this before, to aim it like you would a shotgun.

Okay, that's fine, but what if you've never shot a shotgun?

 

[musketman]

Take some more time and try to think of this as a shotgun rather than a rifle.

I've heard this before, to aim it like you would a shotgun.

Okay, that's fine, but what if you've never shot a shotgun?

Focus on the target with the sight blade on it, not the front sight itself with the target beyond it...

Do not look down the tube of the barrel as means of a sight, this will cause you to shoot low, same as using the breech as a rear sight...

Again, concentrate on the target, not so much the front sight blade and the ball will find it's mark...

I have seen people shoot really good with no sights at all, point and shoot is the key, they took the front barrel band off (.69 caliber French musket) for the demonstration and did remarkably well...

 

[Wart]

Personally, I would site her in at 35 yards - by all means, use a patch.
As mentioned above, take some time and learn the gun as well as how to shoot her - you can always file a bit off the front site (slowly) as you go to see if you can pull your POI up to the target.
I've never had to bend a barrel but have know many that have - it sounds scary to me and would be my last resort.
Give her and yourself some time - you'll both come around :thumbsup:

 

[Grenadier1758]

When you are shooting the gun like a shotgun, you are using your eye as the rear sight. Just like any rear sight, if the ball is hitting low you need to raise the rear sight. With my Bess, my chin is resting on the edge at the comb with my cheek clamped to the stock. I do see quite a bit of the barrel. The bayonet lug works reasonably well as a sight.

 

[ffffg]

a smoothbore is a shotgun as listed earlier... you can raise impact of a shotgun also with pitch (stock angle) heavier/lighter loads, raise rear sight, lower front sight.. your velocity could be quite slow (lowereing impact)if your load is incorrect and your not getting a good seal.... when you get a tight patch/ball combo,understand how the gun is meant to be shot, i think things will start to straiten out.. a slower burning powder can also raise impact.. dont do anything to the gun untill you know the correct load and sight in distance for your personal needs,and have found the best load for it.. .. contact the gunmakers and see what they have to say.. your not doing anything wrong, enjoy your new gun, and keep asking questions.. dave

 

About the patch---use one! it can be dangerous bare-balling the smoothie no matter what your group size....you at least need to make sure the ball is snug on the powder! If the ball should shift towards the bore before you shoot....bad news! Some folks who use a unpatched ball, put wads below and above the ball and seat everything good, but I think patching is safer....IMHO

 

[JackAubrey]

Greetings Widowbender,You have recieved some excellent advice here.I can only reinterateo patch your ball and your eye is ,in fact, the rear sight,as it were.I went so far as to add a brass tack into the stock as an anchor point so my eye ( the "rear sight") would be in a consistant position at every shot.Now when I bring my Bess to shoulder,I place the corner of my mouth against the tack knowing my eye is more or less in the same place as it was previously.I am glad someone asked for an explanation of how exactly to shoot a shotgun.I have heard that advice oft but been too embarressed to ask!I think it wise to remember that accuracy is a relative[url] thing.In[/url] our modern era we tend to consider accuracy in increments of sub-MOA.Muzzleloading frees one of these limiting constraints.That is not to say Mz are inaccurate.IMHO.Best Regards,Jack.

 

[11th corps]

Trade gun out to the range for a second time. With the advice of the learned posters, I tried focusing on the target, not the sight bead. Now my smoothie is shooting high (it was low). But your advice did work. I just have to figure out this smoke belcher.

 

[tg]

I have had the best results sighting in a non-rear sighted smoothbore from a standing position (rest the barrel on something for consistancy) standing and sitting will give different head/gun relationships when pointing a smoothy.

 

[musketman]

Trade gun out to the range for a second time. With the advice of the learned posters, I tried focusing on the target, not the sight bead. Now my smoothie is shooting high (it was low). But your advice did work.

Now just file down your head to bring the point of impact to zero... :kid:

Actually, the more you shoot it, the easier it'll get to place a mass of lead on target...

Zen Musketry :hmm:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

The first thing I learned about my Tulle fusil de chasse, look over the barrel, not down it.

You can rapidly find the sweet spot by how much you look over the barrel with the front turtle on the target. You will be amazed at how accurate one can get instinct shooting with a smoothie sans a rear sight

Almost all my shooting is done bare ball as per Bob Spencer's method here.

http://members.aye.net/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html

 

[Deadeye]

I've read Spencers method before but read it again and he 1st says he didn't have good results with a prb then later says when he needs the best accuracy he uses a prb. I always use a prb and I've very seldom lost a smoothbore match. If you want shotgun like groups, shoot it like a shotgun but if you want rifle like groups, shoot it like a rifle, that is, eye focused on the front sight.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I've read Spencers method before but read it again and he 1st says he didn't have good results with a prb then later says when he needs the best accuracy he uses a prb. I always use a prb and I've very seldom lost a smoothbore match. If you want shotgun like groups, shoot it like a shotgun but if you want rifle like groups, shoot it like a rifle, that is, eye focused on the front sight.

Just what I wanted to say, but I didn't want to get a pie in the face... eace:
I sight a fowler by stacking the front sight on the breech and puting the top of the front sight on what I want to hit. I bend my barrel till I can get a sight picture as I described above.
For a gun intended only to shoot shot I sight right down the top of the barrel. I don't find a sight or bead usefull at all for wing shooting.