smoothbore dilema

[bezoar]

of course its only economic to get out of the stock market.

your contractually bound to pay the stock broker/portfolio manager a specified amount of money per year, no matter what the stock market does.

every time you do a stock trade, you pay the broker a commision to do the trade, plus the price of the stocks, and normally a set price to actually conduct the stock trade.

then when tax time comes around, you have to hire a specialized tax preparer to do all your taxes due to you having stocks.

add up all those fees youve been hit up with over the length of time youve been playing with the stock market,
compare that sum of money youve been screwed out of to the price of your rifle.

compare the first sum to the stock price of your stocks.

then compare the stock price to the fees needed to sell them this minute. youll be scared.

thing is, even a banker i know who makes his living selling hedgefunds and other stock crap admits that unless you can buy 100,000 shares at a time, you should not be in the market at all, let alone expecting to make money.

 

[Dphar]

Here is my dilema. Im wanting to order a new smoothie and I am looking at the Wilson trade gun from Danny Caywood. I have a small investment that is not even holding it's own, so I'm thinking of selling it to buy the gun. My guestion is will the gun retain it's value over the years where as the investment fund is slowly dwinddling down. I want the gun to reenact the F&I war time frame. What are your thoughts. :surrender:

A trade gun? Research F&I firearms if that is what you plan to do. A Wilson trade gun might not be the best choice unless you are re-enacting a native and maybe not then. The Shawnee, Delaware and some others used rifles to a significant extent during this time frame and a rifle, a good one, will hold its value better than a trade gun. Semi-customs are not going to appreciate like a custom from a known maker will.
I would not want to bet that a Trade gun would appreciate over inflation. But others may have other opinions.
If you are buying for long term investment you gotta buy a GOOD gun from a KNOWN maker. Buying Semi-custom bottom end type guns is not a good idea in this context.
Dan

 

[longbow-hunter]

Caywoods add says that the Wilson will date back to around 1740. It may not be PC for the F&I War but the mid 1740's through 1800 will work for me. After all I may not be strictly PC or HC because I'm also torn between a wedge tent or a pyrmid tent. I belive the strongest thing for me is to learn our past history and just have FUN. :hatsoff:

 

[tg]

If their Wilson is one of the guns that is made to look kind of Frenchish, some say that style came to be after the F&I others say it was before to compete with the French whose guns the NDN's in many areas prefered, I think many use these guns for F&I. I beleve here were two or three generations of "Wilsons". this gun would be better than the NW gun most put out which is post 1800, and better than Caywoods C/D which have to short of barrels and small locks, not good repros at all. I would go with the Wilson if locked into Caywood,North Starr West also makes an early English which is used for the F&I period.

 

[roundball]

It may not be PC for the F&I War but the mid 1740's through 1800 will work for me.
After all I may not be strictly PC or HC because I'm also torn between a wedge tent or a pyrmid tent.
I belive the strongest thing for me is to learn our past history and just have FUN.

Very well said...

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Thanks, Captain - I thought it was that site, but it was the reference to "something being for sale" that threw me as I didn't recall any prices mentioned anywhere for the makers' wares. My poor old brain is misunderstanding more and more. But it IS a great site to see a vast number of makers and their works that, I suppose, could lead to a correspondence whereiin prices are proffered to the prospective customer.

 

[oldfart1956]

Longbow, just my 2 cents worth here but NEVER look at guns as an investement. Not with thoughts of actually profiting that is. The return on your purchase will be the joy you recieve from it and handing it down to the next generation. As far as monetary gains....yeah right. BUT..it won't be any worse than yer stocks are doing right now! Even if it's a custom gun inflation will eat up any possible profit. And you'll have to find a buyer that wants a gun made to YOUR specifications. So free up some of them rapidly depleting frogskins and get what makes ya happy while ya kin still enjoy it. Audie..the Oldfart..

 

[Curtis Makamson]

Buy the gun you want. If you do not get that very one it is doubtful if the first alternate, the runner up, the second choice,or whatever is substituted in its place will please you as much.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Longbow, just my 2 cents worth here but NEVER look at guns as an investement. Not with thoughts of actually profiting that is.

Well that's odd....I've been making a good percentage of my living buying and selling antique guns the past few years. You have to use your head and know the market. I have never lost money on a gun.

 

[longbow-hunter]

Well now it is just a matter of my finance guy selling the fund and sending the money :surrender: . I know that the gun probably wont pay for my retirement but it will help feed me and my family. And I will enjoy going to rendvouse with it. Soon as the check comes I'll call Danny Caywood and order the Wilson. May not be exactly pc but I like the idea of adding another barrel later on. :wink:

 

[pichou]

If it was me (and its not :haha: ) I would get a Carolina gun. We know a lot more about them, and there were plenty of them all over the place.

The Caywood Wilson is, AFAIK, unique and hard to pin down?

 

[missionary5155]

Good morning
If I did NOT have any reliable Flinter I would deffinatly do so NOW. About a 58.
If I had a rifled Flinter I would deffinatly get a smoothy NOW.
If I had a smoothy I would consider a rifled flinter if it was a good deal.
I would sell out my INVESTMENTS if possible without loosing it all to taxes and buy some silver coins NOT COLLECTOR stuff. Dimes , Quarters halves. Forget Gold unless the small $10 coins.
If you donot have some semi auto rifles in .308 or .223 get one of each NOW. At least 10 magazines each. 1000 rounds each bought or reloaded.
Get a couple 357 mag revolvers and 1000 rounds bought or loaded. If you are semi auto orientated do so NOW. Get a standard caliber.. 9mm or 40 or 45acp.
12 guage pump or semi auto NOW. 500 rounds buckshot bought or loaded.
I think these are the viable investments for our future.
It would be best to have a safe place to go and a well maintained vehicle to get there with the gas already stored and the water-food already to load and go.
Logistics, Logistics, logistics... That´s what the old Sarge repeated at Tank Commander School . I think he was right all along !
You may think I am an extremist nut... but do you not see the clouds gathering on the horizon ???

 

[matt denison]

Missionary5155 brings up the point that I've been thinking throughout this thread. The original question was about making an investment. Buying a semi custom gun will depreciate as soon as you load and shoot it the first time. It will suddenly become a USED gun. If you want to make money on guns you will have to buy/sell antiques (buy low, sell high) which requires considerable time and experience or go for the modern hot sellers.

Buying and selling guns for profit requires a lot of networking, snooping the gun shows, pawn shops, watching on-line auctions and "being there with cash in hand" when some poor fellow needs to sell his quality gun for fast money.

Another way is to buy parts and build it yourself to sell. Be prepared to work till midnight a couple times a week for minimum wage and travel a lot to find customers.

L.Dog

 

[oldfart1956]

Longbow, just my 2 cents worth here but NEVER look at guns as an investement. Not with thoughts of actually profiting that is.

Well that's odd....I've been making a good percentage of my living buying and selling antique guns the past few years. You have to use your head and know the market. I have never lost money on a gun.

My mistake Mike. I thought the original poster was buying a new muzzleloader at retail price..not an antique wholesale (as a dealer) to mark up for resale. In that case a profit might be realized. I wish I'd had bought a dozen Nagants 18mo. ago when they were $49 and several dozen AR's 2 years ago when they were $300.! I must have read his post wrong. Audie...

 

[Capt. Jas.]

These types of guns are in my mind production type guns like a CVA or TC. They are just made on a small non-factory scale and offer a few options. You will not find one of a kind, hand made hardware, locks and barrels on them. They are cookie cutter type with a few standard options available.

They make nice shooters but do not have a collector's value in my opinion. They tend to hold their own in value fairly well better than a factory made import but any increase in sales dollars over a time frame is usually eaten up with cost of living increase.Being it's a production type gun, when it's shot it's a used gun to many people not unlike driving that new car off the lot. You can take a contemporary piece from makers like Mike Brooks mentioned though, shoot it often and it will still have a tendency increase in value over time.

My thoughts would be to contract a good builder for custom gun, put down the down payment, put the rest in an easy reach savings and add to it in bits and pieces while you wait 2-3 years for a nice piece. (My thoughts only as requested)

In comparing nothing but your final choice of a caywood to the dwindling investment... I would choose the gun.

 

[longbow-hunter]

Guess the fund is not doing so well so I thought I may as well use it to buy a new gun. Actually it was my wifes idea. I realalize that the gun will not increase in value like a stock or saving would. It also is not my only savings. Together my wife and I wanna try and get into reenacting so that gives me an excuse to buy some more toys. As far as all the ar's and hand guns go for WW3, covered already. I hope to hunt with this gun also and I like the idea of adding barrels later.
I've looked online at NSW and Caywoods and Cabin Creek ( real close to home.) and I stiil like the looks of the Wilson from Catwood.I'll most likely ponder on this untill the check comes and give Danny a call. Hope to see some of you all at future roonys, And to use the gun for some online shoots on this forum. :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

"The Caywood Wilson is, AFAIK, unique and hard to pin down? "


That has been my thought as well, short barrels/small locks no doubt quality guns but they just miss the mark a bit for the price IMHO.

 

[longbow-hunter]

Well I did it. Mar 16, I called Danny Caywood and ordered my new smoothbore. A wilson 20 guage with 41 inch barrel.It will have no rear sight, he did sujest swivels and I'm having my initals engraved in the toe plate. It will be jug choked and be a full turkey choke. It may not be PC or HC enough for some but it is a copy of a gun from the 1740's. It will become an hierloom to be passed down to my daughter after I enjoy it for many years. Now the problem... how do I wait for 3 1/2 months before I get it? :surrender:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Get to work making the other gear you will need. A Range rod, jags, hunting pouch dedicated to that gun, powder horn, Priming horn? Ball block, if you will be using RBs at all, vent pick, powder measure, etc. Ask Danny to call you with the EXACT Diameter of the bore when he has begun the project, so that you can order proper sized wads, RB mold, etc. If you intend to hunt Waterfowl, then you need to begin looking at, and shopping for non-toxic shot. Every year seems to add another brand, and type of non-toxic shot.

That should give you something to be doing over the next 3 months.

 

[thewho66]

hey Paul how about I drop off mine and ypu can help him out. As for shot loads most 20 gauge wads and cards will work mine are from circle fly and they fit fine. As for round ball .600 balls and 15thousands patchs work but are hard to start I would have Danny bevel the barrel then try some 18 thousands. Mine is jug choked in between full and Mod. I havent had a lot of time lately to get out and shoot but I used 1 1/4 shot and equal powder charge and got a really good pattern at 30 yards with only one hole in the pattern. started with powder felt wad, shot then over card for the shot. Hope this helps.

John