smoothbore vs. fowler?

[drakecreek67]

I'm new to all this muzzleloader and reenacting stuff so please bear with me.Could someone please explain the difference between a fowler and smoothbore and which would be more authentic for the F&I war era in Illinois.Thanks

 

[chuck-ia]

The authentic part, I don't know. A smoothbore is a fowler, a fowler is a smoothbore. Trade gun? flinch

 

[alex efremenko]

Illinios,1750's :A French gun of some sort.

 

[Spikebuck]

A fowler is a smoothbore, as is a shotgun and a smoothrifle. So in net, Fowlers are a subset of smoothbores of which there are numerous types/configurations.

 

[jdkerstetter]

There was a French and Indian war in Illinois??? ............... :grin: :wink:
http://www.greatriverroad.com/stegen/randattract/assemblage.htm

Alex is correct, of course. Likely if you were a human in that territory during that time frame odds are very great that you were carrying a French trade gun, fusil or musket.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Stumpkiller]

A fowler is someone who used/uses a smoothbore to hunt birds. Usually on the wing (a market hunter shot anything). A smoothbore described as a "fowler" has come to mean a light longarm - around seven pounds - that is useable at wing shooting.

A Bess is a smoothbore but not what you'd go after grouse or woodcock with.

 

[Wes/Tex]

There was a French and Indian war in Illinois??? ............... :grin:

Well, sort of. Actually the Compagnies Franches de la Marine had somewhere between 300 and 400 troops in the Illinois (called Upper Louisiana) area. The Commandant sent Captaine Charles-Philippe Aubry and a mix of some 250 troopers and militia to Fort Duquesne as reinforcements. Aubry seems to have been a go-getter and lead the right hand sweep against Grant's attempt to take the fort Oct. 12, 1758. There's no real way to know who carried what but a reasonable assumption would have been a fusil de chasse for the militia and a M.1728 for the marine troopers. Some may still have carried the Tulle M.1729-34 Marine musket but those had been replaced in the Compagnies Franches from the 1740's by Saint-Etienne version of the M.1728. Educated guess at best.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

A smoothbore described as a "fowler" has come to mean a light longarm - around seven pounds - that is useable at wing shooting.

I learned something new..., I thought a "fowler" was for shooting waterfowl, and hence was a 16 gauge or larger bore gun with a rather long barrel. Smaller gauge with shorter barrels, that were lighter I thought were either called fuzees or fusils, or trade guns.

Hmm whadaya know... :idunno:

LD

 

[rich pierce]

(Intended to reply to the original post)
Some of these terms may or may not reflect the terms our forefathers. My working definitions: a musket is large bored, intended for military use and often will have provision for a bayonet. A trade gun is any gun made to a pattern for trade in the interior, even a rifle, but commonly refers to lightweight, medium bore smoothies including fusils de trait when French. A fusil in the military sense is another animal and can be a musket, often of smaller bore for officers, but in common usage, fusil often means a French trade gun. A buck and ball gun is a smoothbore made in the colonies with a heavier barrel than a fowling piece, but that definition fails when we see fowling pieces that weigh 20 pounds and are intended for shooting waterfowl on the water. Fowling pieces can be for wingshooting or can be punt guns and can vary from grouse guns to punt guns. Smoothies built fowling gun style in Pennsylvania often have small bores, sometimes as small as .48 so I have no idea what they were used for. And all these guns are built without cheek pieces or patch boxes most of the time, and have flat to the toe guards. Smooth rifles on the other hand are rifle built with a cheek piece and a rifle style guard and often a patchbox but are smooth bored. And plenty of originals don't fit any of my working definitions perfectly.

For F&I war era in Illinois you've got good suggestions unless you're English then an English trade gun or fowling piece would be a good choice.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Thanks Wes....but I'm all over it, thus my " :grin: " If you get up this way make your way to Kennywood Amusement Park near Pittsburgh. The view of the scene of Braddock's defeat from that ridge are commanding.....and without all the trees that probably obscured the route at that point in history his eminent failure is obvious.

Rich, Likely were you English in that territory in that period, you weren't there long....or your remains were left there forever. The French and their allies made a habit ensuring that....as a few trader found out. :wink:

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

A smoothbore described as a "fowler" has come to mean a light longarm - around seven pounds - that is useable at wing shooting.

I learned something new..., I thought a "fowler" was for shooting waterfowl, and hence was a 16 gauge or larger bore gun with a rather long barrel. Smaller gauge with shorter barrels, that were lighter I thought were either called fuzees or fusils, or trade guns.

Hmm whadaya know... :idunno:

LD

Yep a "fowler" is one who goes after fowl. Fowl is either land/game bird fowl or waterfowl. That so, a fowling gun can be a light birding piece we know today as an upland style or a heavier bored waterfowling piece. In the 18th century the term "smoothbored gun" was used and it could mean many of the previously mentioned guns. There are many historical variations as has been mentioned but also many more that cross two or more lines of delineation in our modern minds.
J N George described the difference between fuzees and fowling pieces (which look alike) by their bores. The former being a cylinder and the latter having a relieved muzzle or a relived muzzle and breech. Trading guns were fuzee type guns.

 

[BrownBear]

I'm new to all this muzzleloader and reenacting stuff so please bear with me.Could someone please explain the difference between a fowler and smoothbore and which would be more authentic for the F&I war era in Illinois.Thanks

Smoothbore is any gun without rifling in the barrel. Lots of styles out there, of which a fowler is one specific style.

 

[Ike Godsey]

well, i have a smoothbored, flintlock, 43" single barreled 12GA gun that is about 5 feet long (over all) and 'bout 8.5 pounds in weight.
i called it fowler.... until i red those posts - now i am not sure how to call my gun - maybe a smoothie?? :idunno:

up until now i thought that smoothies with larger bores are havier guns - and i thought that in the old days, hunting guns were up to cal. .80 and even larger.
Colonial Hunting Guns

am i wrong? :hmm:

 

[JohnN]

In my persona as a French Marine I carry a 1743 French Marine musket made at Tulle. Slightly shorter and lighter than the standard 1728 infantry musket.The last Marine weapon made at Tulle.

 

[Ike Godsey]

for FIW i carry a 1734 TVLLE de Grenadier. nice handy gun.

 

[rich pierce]

well, i have a smoothbored, flintlock, 43" single barreled 12GA gun that is about 5 feet long (over all) and 'bout 8.5 pounds in weight.
i called it fowler.... until i red those posts - now i am not sure how to call my gun - maybe a smoothie?? :idunno:

up until now i thought that smoothies with larger bores are havier guns - and i thought that in the old days, hunting guns were up to cal. .80 and even larger.
Colonial Hunting Guns

am i wrong? :hmm:

That's a nice article but not comprehensive. "Flintlock Fowlers" by Grinslade is the most comprehensive recent book on American made fowling pieces of the colonial period. Hudson Valley, club-butt and British style fowling pieces tended to be large bore but Pennsylvania fowling pieces and some New England guns were smaller in caliber, in some cases 28 ga and even smaller in Pennsylvania. Many Pennsylvania fowling pieces shown are later guns in the Federal period.

"Smoothie" or "smoothbore" is a modern term, so I'd not use it. Decide if you have a fowling piece or a musket! If you'd mostly use it for birding, it's a fowling piece, though it may be a heavy one.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

In 19th-century Great Britain light upland guns (usually in the 5.5 to 7.00 pound range) were often called "game guns". Heavier guns, for waterfowl (ducks, geese and swans) were often called waterfowlers or waterfowl guns. Human nature being what it is, these heavier guns were often called fowlers. They are different guns from the Eighteenth-Century guns used for wingshooting, which were also called fowlers.

The usage changes (or evolves) across time and in different locations.

 

[nit wit]

I thought a fowler was a guy who smelled than you after a hard days work! :grin:
Nit Wit

 

[pargent]

Fowling Piece was a term often used to describe a light smoothbored bird hunting gun in the 18th century in English writings of the time , the term Fowler is a Colonial slang of this .
.
Smoothbore is a general description of a varied range of firearms ie they have smoothbores , Military Musket, Trade Musket, Trade Gun ,Fowler,Smooth Rifle, Blunderbuss, Punt Gun these are all smoothbores, but I suspect that you had a fair idea of this already and just used a general term in your post .

 

[drakecreek67]

Ok thanks for the replies