Soft lead 'air gun' ammo in a muzzleloader?

[Thingamajiggy]

Have just purchased a flintlock investarms .58cal 'trade' rifle in 1:48 and was online looking for ammo. I have round balls for it since I already have a .58 lehigh that is exclusive PRB but I was looking at shooting a conical in it. In my search, I found what look like copies of Lee REAL bullets for .58 'air guns' being sold on ebay. Does anybody have any experience shooting these in muzzleloaders? It says they are soft lead so I'd assume they would work but figured I'd ask if anybody has tried them before I purchase some. Other than not being accurate, can anyone think of a reason to not at least try them? I don't see how it could hurt the gun in anyway but figured I'd put it out the the general knowledge of this forum. TIA.

 

[ppg1949]

I’ve no experience with these but I would want to know the weight in grains before buying them considering they were initially intended for an air gun, no doubt one of the compressed air canister type. But it sounds feasible, though. I shoot soft lead BB’s from my shotgun that were intended for an air gun. Good luck and keep us posted if you shoot them.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Buy a mold and make them your self.

 

[Dwight Dutton]

I use both large bore airguns and BP. In both cases the projectiles are soft pure lead, so they do interchange. I can fire a 95 grain airgun pellet out of my 1851 navy ( A round ball is 177) but I only put about 12 grains of powder behind it, basically a shooting gallery load. I suppose I could put a full powder charge behind it but I think it would just strip off the rifling, its too fragile. I basically have a smoky airgun.

 

[necchi]

The reality is they are not "soft lead". Nor marketed as such.
If "air gun" ammo was compatible for our use in ML,, the manufactures of that ammo would be marketing to us already.\ to maximize profit.
You've not found a magic source of projectiles for ML that everyone can use..

 

[Dwight Dutton]

The reality is they are not "soft lead". Nor marketed as such.
If "air gun" ammo was compatible for our use in ML,, the manufactures of that ammo would be marketing to us already.\ to maximize profit.
You've not found a magic source of projectiles for ML that everyone can use..

1. You are correct, they are not marketed as "soft lead" They are just lead. You have to look at the MSDS sheet to even see that. Neither airguns nor BP use lead hardened with alloys.
2. A large bore airgun and a BP gun require a round lead object of a specific diameter. As that is the only specification. please tell me what is supposed to be different other than the weight of the projectile, which to be fair IS very different - but does not make them incompatible. 99% of all airguns are .177 or .22 and I suspect you have never used one larger than that as they are less common and more expensive than BP guns- and the airgun & BP community do not have much overlap
3. Correct again - large bore airgun pellets cost far more than bullets, even the lightweight ones. Unless you have a $2000 Swaging press, are making them yourself, and shoot a LOT, it is not a money saving alternative, just a curiosity. And not a good alternative. Even then casting is faster than Swaging.

I was given a container of large bore airgun pellets in a size I did not yet own, but they fit my 1851 navy. I tried it and it worked- but only with very light powder charges. But after 100 shots I can say it does indeed work. As a curiosity, not a solution.

And thats all I did because large bore airgun pellets cost significantly more than bullets. Large bore airguns cost more than real guns I might add. Which is why the are not marketed to you. Also the vast majority of airguns, like 99% of them, are .177 or .22 caliber and I have never seen a BP gun that size anyway

 

[andy52]

I've never seen an air rifle that large are the pellets hollow based like the smaller ones?

 

[Grimord]

I made a .22 caliber BP rifle using a .22 RF barrel. I shoot 30 grain Air Rifle slugs (not pellets) in it using 5 grains of 4F black powder. It is my novelty squirrel gun and teaching aid for beginning black powder shooters in the Boys Club. I do not shoot pellets because i found that the skirts blew off and stayed in the barrel that required removing with some difficulty. The slugs work fine, and I get dime sized groups at 25 yards and the slugs will penetrate a 3/4" pine board.

 

[Dwight Dutton]

The vast majority of them are, but not all. The ones fired by the newer high powered ones look like regular cartrige gun bullets.

 

[Justin.44]

I've never seen an air rifle that large are the pellets hollow based like the smaller ones?

Look up a video on the .72 Zeus air rifle. I watched a video yesterday of a guy shooting 1,082 grain hollow point slugs out of one, it was pretty wild.

 

[Dwight Dutton]

I do not shoot pellets because i found that the skirts blew off and stayed in the barrel that required removing with some difficulty.

And that's why airgun pellet manufacturers do not market to the users of BP guns. Unless they are made for the new generation of high powered stuff, they are too fragile. The pellets that WILL work (which you correctly call slugs) tend to cost significantly more that the ammo you are intended to use. Its a curiosity, not a solution.

I have loaded round ball in .38 special. It worked...sort of. I have made BP charcoal from Amazon cardboard boxes. It also worked....sort of. Also loaded Black Powder .40 S&W and fired it in a Glock. Also got that to work.
None of those are good ideas, and I would not do any of them again. But an inquiring mind wanted to know.

 

[Dwight Dutton]

Look up a video on the .72 Zeus air rifle. I watched a video yesterday of a guy shooting 1,082 grain hollow point slugs out of one, it was pretty wild.

12 GA shotgun slugs work, and they chronograph faster than the ones fired from an actual shotgun. But the gun is more expensive, the rate of fire is really slow, and you have to have a big air tank or a compressor with you.

The Zeus is a production model anyone (with money) can buy. Someone made a 20mm (.82 cal) airgun.

I have seen BP guns using 777 powder manage to fire a supersonic bullet (>1100 FPS). I have never seen an airgun do that. So like in the days of Flintlocks - if you can't go faster, go bigger.

 

[Grimord]

What caliber was the air gun that Lewis & Clark brought with them up the Missouri on their trek to the NW coast?

 

[Grenadier1758]

I think that the caliber of the airgun brought along on the Corps of Discovery was never mentioned in the Journals nor is the maker identified. I believe there is a Giradoni airgun in the West Point Museum that has the same repairs documented in the Journals.

 

[Dwight Dutton]

It was a .46 caliber Girandoni, the actual gun is in the National Firearms Museum. About 1500 were actually made. Expensive, fragile and too complicated for the average soldier to use, the main problem was that like a modern PCP airgun, you have to carry around a lot of stuff to make it work, unlike a percussion rifle where everything you need fits in a relatively small bag.

 

[mushka]

I believe that somewhere in my past I saw a youtube video where a man killed an American bison with a large caliber air gun.

 

[Dwight Dutton]

I believe that somewhere in my past I saw a youtube video where a man killed an American bison with a large caliber air gun.

Air guns now exist that exceed the power any black powder gun can achieve. The previously mentioned Zeus .72 is an example. But they are very expensive, even more slow firing than BP, and require you to either carry a large tank with you or stay near your car so you can use an air compressor. Advantage is that <.25 pellets are cheap, and if you can cast & size your own larger ones, those are too.

But basically, a BP gun you can hunt deer with costs $300. An Airgun you can hunt deer with with costs well over $2000. and another $1000 for the equipment to make it work. Main reason I have one is because it didn't need percussion caps - that I still can't buy