Some more French iron-handled clasp knife tinkering

[ameling]

I finally got around to tinkering up a several more of those French iron
handled clasp knives made similar to the ones found on the wreck of la Salle's
ship la Belle that sank off the Texas coast near Corpus Christi in 1685.

The blades are carefully chiseled and ground out of saw blades, and the
handles are folded up from sheet iron. On the bottom knife I used a thinner
sheet iron than I normally do. It is around 20 gauge, but is closer to the
very thin handles on the originals. Those were like the metal on coffee cans.
The others I used about 14 gauge sheet. That thin handled one is OK, and
tough enough to hold up in use. It just doesn't have the ”¦ feel ”¦ that
a knife should have. I'm just too used to a thicker handle on a knife.
It just feels too ”¦ thin. I cannot flex the handle by hand like I could
if it had been made from coffee can material like those originals. I still
can't bring myself to put a handle that thin on one. Just too ”¦ cheap ”¦
for my taste. Although, those original knives were made that cheap,
And the original makers weren't even trying to hide the fact that they
were making cheap knives to trade to the Indians.

That little skew point knife just happened to be the size of material I
had on hand. It is cute, but you have to hold it carefully because of its
size. The handle is 2 3/4 inches long, 4 3/4 inches opened. That bottom
one with the thin handle is 3 3/4 inches long closed, 6 3/4 opened. The
other small one is a tad shorter - 3 5/8 closed, 6 1/2 open. The big
ones have a nice "heft" to them. The top one is 4 1/2 closed, 8 1/2
opened. The next down is the same. The only difference is that
slightly more pronounced peak in the blade and a little more swoop
towards the point. Still working on loosening them up a bit more for
opening/closing - but not TOO loose. You don't want the blade flopping
back and forth in use, but you also want to be able to open it without
using a pliers. Plus I need to take a small file to a couple spots on some
of the handles. I have put an initial edge on them, but most people would
want to sharpen them more to their tastes.

More fun tinkering. If you have any questions, please send me a PM or
an email to [email protected]


Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[John Tice]

Those are pretty cool knives. I wonder if those could be considered to be precoursers to the French Douk-Douk knives.

 

[ameling]

Could be. So much stuff has been ... lost to history.

I've heard of similar knives being used by sailors in the 1700's and 1800's. And also to some being used to cut plug tobacco in the southeast in the early 1900's. Quite a time range.

I've also checked with French Clasp Knives Collectors here and over in France, and they can't shed any light on them. They had not even heard of them, and had no clue as to where la Salle got those couple crates of "cheap trade clasp knives" before he set sail. He left right from France and didn't stop anywhere else. So where did those originals come from in the first place? Just another ... detail ... lost to history.

There's also a German WWII clasp knife with a folded iron handle. I haven't seen it, but have been told about it by some WWII reenactors.

Mikey

 

[PaulN/KS]

Nice work as always Mike.
I have in my "collection" a clasp knife with a simple metal handle that is stamped,

PAT.
JAN-23-17
USA
I can't quite make out what it has on the blade.
When the wife returns this week I'll try to send you a picture.

 

[PitchyPine]

:thumbsup:

 

[ameling]

There is an early 1900's US military folding clasp knife with an all-metal handle. But is is made like a classic folding knife - just with metal slabs riveted on the sides instead of horn/bone/wood/etc. The unique part with these is that folded U shaped one-piece handle. There are only three parts to these types of knives: blade, handle, and rivet pin.

There are even a few original Roman era clasp knives like that! Those are obviously the early versions of some of those sailor's knives. The blades are more one half "leaf" shaped - with the handles being taller, more rounded, and bulged out on the sides.

Just some more of the little details along this journey.

Mikey

 

If you have any questions, please send me a PM or
an email to [email protected]

I'm sorry but this is a flagrant violation of the rules. Posting your merchandise (under the guise of "sharing") and then asking people to contact you privately is just too obvious a sales pitch.

Is this not obvious to the moderators?

 

[LRB]

I'm sorry Carl, but I think the only thing obvious to anyone on this board is the fact that you are only here to try and start trouble over the most trivial of matters, and to impugn good people that are simply trying to share their skills and knowledge, and show something of interest to those who may enjoy looking. If you don't like this board, why don't you crawl back under your rock with the other slugs, or find a board that would appreciate your twisted take on things.

 

[chipper]

Hey Carl, Make something, take a picture of it and post it. Rules sound simple to me.

I personally learned a little history and saw some neat knives.

Right outside of Denver, there's a little town. On the billboard entering this town, there's a big caption that states, "Strasburg, Population 2538 or so really nice people and a few sore heads"
Are you from Strasburg?

Regards
Loyd Shindelbower
Loveland Colorado

 

[PitchyPine]

Whoops, i clicked on Mr Tice`s reply instead of yours Mike, the thumbs up was intended for you. But the thumbs up goes to both of you, nice work.
I`ve made a couple all steel folders myself and like the design and durability of them.

 

[RickD]

Lenn I still have that top knife

 

[PitchyPine]

Lenn I still have that top knife

:thumbsup: I should get off my duff and make some more. :redface:

 

[omarick1948]

Mike and Lenn,....Now those are really neat! :thumbsup: Is the handle piece folded over or do you have to forge weld a spacer in between to make a gap for the blades! You guys really know your craft! I evy you both...you to Wick!

Rick

 

[PitchyPine]

Rick on mine the wide bladed one the handle part is folded over but the snake knife is welded down the top with a wire feed then ground smooth.
The first way would be more authentic i`m sure.
Thanks.

 

[ameling]

Hi, Rick. The unique part of these style of folding clasp knives is that U shaped folded handle. You just take a flat sheet, and hammer it into the U shape. So there are only 3 parts to these knives --- a blade, that U shaped handle, and a pivot pin/rivet. Just that simple.

And that is also why those originals were made that way. The classic French clasp knive had a wood/horn/bone handle. It had to be grooved to fit that blade into it. Some split the handle into two parts, filed/carved to fit the blade, and then glued and/or pinned the handle parts back together. That all required a certain level of skilled work. The bent U shaped sheet iron handles required far less "skilled" labor to produce. Plus the thinness of those original handles also contributed to their ease in manufacturing. The thinness of those original handles was around the same as if you cut the handle out of the top of a coffee can! If you have strong hands/fingers, you could form that by hand without tools. With a few tools it would go very quickly.

And they were not even trying to hide the fact that they were making cheap knives to trade to the Indians. They also expected them to be some of the first trade goods those Indians would have had access to. As many traders found out in time, the Indians became very good judges of quality in trade goods, and demanded higher levels all the time. But the Spanish had been trading goods to those Indians for years before la Salle got there.

La Salle had intended to establish a colony near the mouth of the Mississippi River, and claim the area for France. But he missed it, and ended up a couple hundred miles farther west near Corpus Christi. Then his ship full of tools for the Colony and trade goods (la Belle) broke loose in a storm and ran aground on that island/sandbar along the coast - where it sank and settled into the sand/mud. They only got ... some ... of the tools and trade goods off of it before it went too far down.

Just another small part of our past history.

Mikey

 

[NRAJOE]

Hows come you sold 'em on Frontier Folk and not on here?

Woulda liked to had one.... :hmm: