Sources on wheellock rifles?

[GREENSWLDE]

Some years ago The German Gun magazine DWJ produced a very detail Build book for a European Wheel lock. Scaled in M/M and written in German,but followable by Drawings.
If I can find my copy I will post more details But not the whole thing as it is about 20 pages of A4.
I think it was published between 1974 and 1984.. O.D.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Flint.

I am having a "Thick" moment.
In your pictures of the lock mechanism, What draws the scear out of engagement with the wheel?
This isn't the first time I have looked at such diagrams and wondered.
So maybe "thick" is a better term than "Thick moment"!!

Rudyard has it on these diagrams being 17th C.

all the best,
Richard.

 

[Kentuckyjed]

If you're going to build and shoot it, you won't need the sword and cuirass if you wear a codpiece with your helmet.

 

[TobJohn]

If you're going to build and shoot it, you won't need the sword and cuirass if you wear a codpiece with your helmet.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

In your pictures of the lock mechanism, What draws the sear out of engagement with the wheel?

Well, torque (power) from the wound wheel is what forces the nose of the 'sear lever' out of the dimple in the wheel, but with this being what's called a 'horizontal acting sear' (as opposed to the vertical acting sear bar on a French-style flintlock), it is the trigger that pushes what that diagram calls the 'trigger lever' out, so the wheel is no longer trapped.

Personally, I call their 'trigger lever' as the 'sear' with the longer arm that traps the wheel as a ' 'sear lever'. FWIW I've been in contact with Bolek M., the famed Polish build of wheelocks, and he uses an entirely different terminology, some Latin based in origin!

 

[hawkeye2]

"Well, torque (power) from the wound wheel is what forces the nose of the 'sear lever' out of the dimple in the wheel,"

If I follow what you say then the nose of the sear lever is forced out of the dimple in the wheel by the force of the mainspring acting through the chain and trying to turn the wheel. Wouldn't this induce an incredible amount of wear on the dimple and the nose of the sear lever given the load on those two components at the time of release? Wouldn't this require a sophisticated shaping of the dimple and the nose of the sear lever (not just a round peg in a round hole) for those forces to push the two out of engagement?

 

[Rudyard]

Interesting stuff I call them the primary & secondary Scears the hole in the wheel is scarce more than a shallow dimple & the nose of the corresponding scear is rounded both of course hardened no fitting in to any great extent . And the set cocking trigger that props up the extended arm of the primary scear needs to strike horizontally not upwards as in the usual Flint lock set triggers , I found while a rifle is better with sets , The smooth bored guns can use a common trigger typical of pistols .This said I've never thought of Wheellock guns as handy shotgun like usefulness . But while as a hunting Rifle there fine but a Clay Pidgeon shooter would face too many pyrite problems beside fouling . I once shot a 13 shoot MLAIC type target I had a struggle and the last shot was using a cigarette end some one thrust it into the pan lock unwound I don't smoke still managed a bronze though in the 'Worsley' R at Short Siberia MLAGB nationals . . Archaic guns you gota love em.
Regards Rudyard

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Wouldn't this induce an incredible amount of wear on the dimple and the nose of the sear lever given the load on those two components at the time of release? Wouldn't this require a sophisticated forces to push the two out of engagement?

I’m sure there will be wear (over time) and Brian Anderson, who custom made wheellocks, told me the wheel is harder than the sear lever nose, as that lever is far easier to replace.

Did you see my recent post about the Schroeter wheellocks?

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/wheellock-sear-repair.155292/
Note, to remove any possibility of wear, they used a hardened ball bearing as the sear lever nose. I have detailed photos in that post, on page 1.

With the fit of the wheel, I don’t think the force is as great as you imagine. As Rudy says, the nose is really only sitting in a shallow dimple, < half the diameter if the nose, if not less. That sear lever also gets locked into place.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Flint, I understand both horizontal and vertical sears, but until you told me the depression in the wheel is very shallow, I had not grasped that from the pictures I had seen over the years.
I was looking for something like the English lock or Snaphaunce, with the horizontal scear, where it is physically pried out of engagement.
Thanks for the clarification. it now makes sense!
If i'd have been making one, I would have had a wedge fitting into the wheel to give a longer wear surface, and a conventional horizontal scear to hopefully disengage it!
Thank you again Flint.

R.

 

[rickystl]

Yes, thanks for the clarification Flint. My thoughts were along with Pukka's.

It's rather difficult to explain - in written form - how the horizontal sear operates. It's not obvious at first glance. During my first encounter with the snaphaunce, it seems that it took me forever to figure out how the sear is supposed to operate. LOL
Most of the Moroccan snaphaunce locks I've encountered that are not in working condition, are due to the nose of the sear being worn down. During the period, the Moroccan guns must have been in a constant state of maintenance/repair.

Thanks again Flint.

Rick

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Some years ago The German Gun magazine DWJ produced a very detail Build book for a European Wheel lock. Scaled in M/M and written in German,but followable by Drawings.
If I can find my copy I will post more details But not the whole thing as it is about 20 pages of A4.
I think it was published between 1974 and 1984.. O.D.

I have found the Wheel lock Instructions from DWJ. 13pp. text. ..30pp. drawings..6pp fold outs ..

 

[TFoley]

That is very neat! I had assumed making everything "perfectly" to spec on their own would be a recipe for disappointment.

I posted it in another thread yesterday, but this guy does a great job of showing how each part can be filed/ground from blocks of steel into a wheellock:

This gentleman is the European version of our own Dave Persons. He possesses immense levels of all manner of gunmaking skills from the time before mass production was ever dreamt of. A look at his Jaeger rifle is stepping back into a past inhabited by master gunmakers of the highest levels.

 

[TobJohn]

This gentleman is the European version of our own Dave Persons. He possesses immense levels of all manner of gunmaking skills from the time before mass production was ever dreamt of. A look at his Jaeger rifle is stepping back into a past inhabited by master gunmakers of the highest levels.

The biggest problems with his videos is that he makes it look so effortless and simple that the viewer feels like they could easily do it, but then you take a second and realize it is because he is incredibly skilled

 

[Rudyard]

I watched the whole thing I was impressed enough to buy a disk grinder never had one & seemed the right tool to swamp barrels other than the long bouts of fileing with the dreadnought files ! I've made over two hundred MLs but allways happy to learn new ideas . The older Gent makeing a Jager rifle is good value as well .
Rudyard

 

[TobJohn]

I watched the whole thing I was impressed enough to buy a disk grinder never had one & seemed the right tool to swamp barrels other than the long bouts of fileing with the dreadnought files ! I've made over two hundred MLs but allways happy to learn new ideas . The older Gent makeing a Jager rifle is good value as well .
Rudyard

In the guy’s videos where he makes the lock parts for the wheellock, it’s really cool to see how he uses the angle grinder to make a very rough piece from a rod or block of steel, and then files it into actual shape

 

[Rudyard]

I Expect he's done it before always helps ime angle grinding away to make a swamp green chalk helps I found if colour doesn't matter .
Rudyard

 

[Notchy Bob]

This article won't provide any direct help, but you might find something interesting in it: Hunting With A Wheel-Lock

From The American Society of Arms Collectors Bulletin, No.121 (May 2020).

It mentions a builder named Earl Wyatt in New Zealand. I wonder if @Rudyard knows him...

Notchy Bob

 

[TobJohn]

This article won't provide any direct help, but you might find something interesting in it: Hunting With A Wheel-Lock

From The American Society of Arms Collectors Bulletin, No.121 (May 2020).

It mentions a builder named Earl Wyatt in New Zealand. I wonder if @Rudyard knows him...

Notchy Bob

I think this is actually the exact same rifle

 

[Notchy Bob]

I think this is actually the exact same rifle

Son of a gun! I think you're right!



I'm not really into wheellocks, but just happened to remember seeing that article in the ASAC Bulletins when I was browsing through them a couple of days ago.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Rudyard]

Yes Rudyard does know Brer Earl His rifle was inspired by one I made in UK but hunted with it prior to Christmas in the Urewera's huge forests being then single I allway's avoided Xmas by staying in the bush till it was all over I then made for the NZ equivelent of a Rondesvous on NZ Army grounds since several of the Senior Soldiers where into black powder . By US standards it was a hokey mix but many got into the NZ historical attire, If some aped the US versions .I had just my hunting togs and the Wheellock all the previous week .so shot the matches with it & Earl fancied makeing one and you see he did based on my own .Only somehow I spanned clock wise & Earls goes anti clockwise . He was a very capable gunmaker mostly MLs but Some BLs I thought he was dead but no he just gave up the gunmakeing too small a market . Can.t blame him but he did pay me the ultimate compliment of buying a rifle of my make" Just to have an example" he said . But when later he got short he sold to an Australian man from Sydney .I think it was in John Kells shop for some reason pretty little Jager affair Ide made for me but Earl fancied it so off it went this, was a good 30 years ago I have its number but I' ve made a lot since then ,mostly for the US market all sorts of styles .But non signed 'Rudyard '
Regards Same bloke Rudyard .

PS I think it was the second such R vous at 6 cross camp freezing at night due to elivation but fine views of two volcanoes and we had big army tent at what was called the" Passing wind saloon."I remember one worthy name of Rowe vigorously trying to light his char from the tinder box not noticing his tin as all alight. I thought that amusing he went to Arkansas still there I think. best place for him.