Sprue up?

[crockett]

When I was a young'n someone told me to put the sprue up because it's flat surface would put more wallop into the game and give better expansion. It always seemed to me that a round ball would be more accurate with the sprue down acting sort of like a rudder. It's not a big issue anymore because not many folks shoot round balls with any significant sprue. Any coments? It seems sprue down would definately shoot better in a smoothbore.

 

[LRB]

Another theoretically correct train of reasoning, but the simple fact is that it is much easier to center the sprue when you can see it, and I can assure you that the small amount of flat on a soft lead sprue will not make a measureable difference on any game animal struck by it, or affect penetration, one way or the other. Acually, the Bevel Brothers in MB magazine ran a test on placing the sprues off center, and for some unexplainable reason got the best groups with the off center sprues than with the centered. Go figure, but the rule of thumb is to center the sprue as well as you can when ever possible.

 

[TwoShadows]

Been lotsa talk about it .....both ways have their beliefs. Howsomever, I load mine sprue up...no sense in deforming the ball anywhere else when it gets seated down on the powder. Doncha see, old habits die hard. According to the differential calculus of the atmospheric palpatation during the gibbous moon phases, and the fact that electrons ignite when coming into direct contact with all them itty bitty whatchamacallits what is combustible, given the exothermic tendencies of volatile substances I can't see why ennybody would want to load them any other way.

 

[roundball]

Well, I'll pull the pin on this grenade and toss it out:

I've come to believe spru position makes no measureable difference in accuracy whatsoever.

Personal experience:
I routinely "pull" my loads after a days hunt if I haven't fired a shot...as you probably know, the ball puller screw makes a huge hole in the ball which creates a weight shift in the balls balance, and is made worse by creating a volcanic looking lead cone that sticks up from the ball when the ball is pulled.
I save these balls until hunting season is over and use them for practice at the range...they center shoot coke cans off the 50yd line just as if they were brand new out of the box.

Other Reference:
Muzzleblasts 'Bevel Brothers" just published the results of their exhaustive tests debunking the rumors that spru position affects accuracy...could not detect any differences in accuracy intentionally loading the spru in a variety of different positions using different rifles, etc.

If I was a serious competition shooter I'm certain I would get all involved in weighing balls, aligning the weave of every patch the same way, etc, etc, just because shooting competition forces your into that extreme mindset...but I did all that for years reloading centerfire rifles cartridges, meauring powder and bullets to the tenth of a grain, etc, and don't think it belongs in my muzzleloading hobby.

I'm just a weekend muzzleloader shooter / hunter, and don't want to try and turn muzzleloading into the same thing as centerfire bullseye shooting...for me, I think that misses the point of muzzleloading and I could just keep shooting my big scoped centerfire rifles.

So I don't waste time worrying about variations that might exist in balls, don't waste time weighing them, sorting them, etc, etc...it helps for me to remember that essentially I measure my black powder with a teaspoon in the first place :winking:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Been lotsa talk about it .....both ways have their beliefs. Howsomever, I load mine sprue up...no sense in deforming the ball anywhere else when it gets seated down on the powder. Doncha see, old habits die hard. According to the differential calculus of the atmospheric palpatation during the gibbous moon phases, and the fact that electrons ignite when coming into direct contact with all them itty bitty whatchamacallits what is combustible, given the exothermic tendencies of volatile substances I can't see why ennybody would want to load them any other way.

Ditto.

I figure since they was cast with the sprue up it would go against the geophysical crystilline symmetry and magnetic polarity of the Brownian motions within the cooling lead as it hardened to introduce it into the barrel in any other way.

That, and it's easier to see the sprue is centered when it is up, where you can see it. Does it add anything to the projectile's impact? I doubt it. It's not the sharp, defined shoulder and flat point of a Keith style bullet.

 

Damn! My eyes are going buggy reading some of these posts! Are you sure all those words are in Websters?
Well, here's my take on sprue, the little darlin'-
I heard tell that the biggest problem with casting balls is air pockets. And if these air pockets are to be, they'll be near the top of the ball or just under the sprue.
So that when the ball leaves the barrel with sprue up, the ball will naturally turn with the heaviest side facing out(does this make any sense so far? I'm beginning to wonder)because its top heavy. So if you load sprue down, you've already solve the problem of the ball turning. In other words, its already in that position when loaded(?)

I'm not sure what I said so I'm going to bed.
Manynames ::

 

[TwoShadows]

wellll, whut hit is , is that me 'n Stumpkiller is got lots of 'telligence 'n we is showing hit. We's trying to git a grant to studify whar yer lap goes when u stand up...'n we is jest showing tha hole wurld thet we gots what hit takes!

 

[musketman]

I load the round ball with the flat side up for one main reason, if I ever have to pull the ball, it's easier to screw the ball puller into a flat surface than a curved one...

 

[riarcher]

,,, And one more thing to remember-
Spue up, ramm'er down, smoke 'r ard wid the palm! Helps if you use a block of wood to hit the rammer to really seat the ball and hard enough to forge the spue into the roundness of the ball with the rod tip.

Heard that from a guy that told me about polishing your bore "the easy way". Says 1/2 tbls. of medium beach sand over the patched ball does "wonders" to a rusty bore. :bull:

 

[musketman]

Heard that from a guy that told me about polishing your bore "the easy way". Says 1/2 tbls. of medium beach sand over the patched ball does "wonders" to a rusty bore.

Sand blasting, so to speak... :haha:

 

Granpa Parker, an old shiner in the hills of northern South Carolina told me when I fed his .36 squirrel rifle, use a well greased patch and be sure to load the sprue down. The pointy end of a rain drop is its trailing end, same as a shootin star. Everybody has their own ways.

Claypipe :winking:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Next time I fire off a raindrop or a meteor I'll remember that.

Them are both things what fall, not fly. Broadheads, spitzer bullets, jets and birds is all pointy on 'tother end. ::

 

Like I said, everybody has their own ways. Back in 1960's I took 16 squirrels in one morning with that rifle loaded sprue down. 4 of those taken with one shot for two. My eyes aren't that good anymore, but then again, in those days we didn't see a store that often. Went barefoot in summer and got one haircut a year. Those squirrels made a nice stew for a family gathering. When I was nine, I was given a .22 single shot rifle and instruction that one shot meant one squirrel or rabbit. Otherwise I was headed for the root cellar and a razor strap. I was born on a bayou and grew up in remote rural areas throughout the US. Right now I reek of smoke, because I just came in from casting bullets for my 45/70's and my Swedish Rolling Block. I used old lead pipe and roof lead, that I flux with beeswax and seived to remove the crud. My heat source, tree branches I picked up on our half acre front yard, mostly maple. I grew up poor, educated myself, went to college, but all in all, I'm still a dyed in the wool coonass from Louisiana who thinks a hurricane is time for a party! Sorry if my ways aren't your ways, but remember leave to others their otherness.

Hunting isn't a vacation, its a way of life!
Claypipe :winking:

 

Next time I fire off a raindrop or a meteor I'll remember that.

Them are both things what fall, not fly. Broadheads, spitzer bullets, jets and birds is all pointy on 'tother end. ::

There are times when I just can't let a thing go, and this is one of them. I hate myself for it, but, its been a buggin me for days. :curse:

"Broadheads, spitzer bullets, jets and birds is all pointy", and they are all elongated bodies, not spherical in shape. The trajectory of a round ball is a distinct arch, after a certain distance, it begins to fall. Rain drops, meteors and round balls are roughly spherical in shape. So, you're talking about carrots, while the rest of us are discussing oranges. Sorry to all, had to get that out of my beard :winking:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Well carrots is orange!

You'll find, if you read MOST of what I type, that it is for my own amusement. Any time you see the " :: " at the end of a sentence you can figure I am amusing myself and hoping a few others will follow along. generally, I just like to get people thinkin, regardless of what they might think o' me.

By the way. The trajectory of a projectile is a parabola and it begins to fall as soon as it leaves the barrel. It just has a net negative earthward vector after apogee if fired above horizontal. Ask an artillerist. Even a satellite in stable orbit at zero gravity is continually falling.

As long as the world is round nothing will ever be on the level. ::

 

the Bevel Bros. did this one in Muzzle Blasts a while back.
Positioned the sprue every way imaginable and found no difference in accuracy or preformance. Sounds impossible, but those were the results. They did a test with changing the direction of the patch material relitive to the bore too. No difference there either. The dang things will still shoot better than we can hold, no matter what we do to them!
Fact is, most people can't shoot well enough to tell the diference, in spite of our exagerated opinions of our abilities, even with scopes, and GHU when we're using those itty-bitty open sights.