rodwha
58 Cal.
Long ago I asked about this and was given a link to a sticky showing the various powder charges and their equal volume shot loads. It seems to be missing. Or am I just slow?
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Square Load Chart
- Thread starter rodwha
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Cruzatte
50 Cal.
Is this what you're looking for?
https://goexpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/mlss.pdf
https://goexpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/mlss.pdf
rodwha
58 Cal.
No. There was a sticky here that showed what a 50, 60, 70, 80. , etc. powder charge would throw in ounces of shot.
Also something I can no longer find is Cirlce Fly’s original shotgun loads.
Cruzatte
50 Cal.
It is easy to find your own "square load". Measure the bore, then set a wad to that depth from the muzzle. Add shot (or powder) until flush with the muzzle. Pour it out and measure that amount. Ta Da!
A "square load" is a load of shot that is the same length as width.
A "square load" is a load of shot that is the same length as width.
rodwha
58 Cal.
Close enough for sure! Thanks!
rodwha
58 Cal.
I’ve seen, and asked, about the square load. Some refer to it being nothing more than equal volumes of powder to shot, whereas others claim it is as tall as it is wide making it something very specific to the bore/gauge you have.
It’s said (assuming this is with a cylinder bore) that it’s the square load that produces the best pattern, that more powder opens it and more shot slows it down and keeps it together longer. Does this “ideal” shot pattern hold true if using say a 28 ga but using the square load for a 20 ga? And is the velocity still as it’s otherwise seen (roughly 1050 fps or so)?
rodwha
58 Cal.
Noting that for every 10 grns it’s about 1/8 oz of shot. I was curious how a much smaller gauge, as these have been recently talked about, would might use. Something like a .410 or maybe a little smaller.
In essence an additional barrel (11/16”) to go with a .32 or .36 cal. The small critter gitter.
In essence an additional barrel (11/16”) to go with a .32 or .36 cal. The small critter gitter.
I have not found it to necessarily produce the best pattern. I found less powder than lead (by volume) gives better patterns. I use a 12 gauge lead charge in my 16 gauge. More shot gives a denser pattern.
Hang out some sheets of paper and play around to see what your gun likes.
Hang out some sheets of paper and play around to see what your gun likes.
I'm curious, have you ever calculated the actual size of the powder charge you would get by that definition? To me the results are always too light to be practical, especially the smaller calibers. I'd like someone else to do it to compare.
There is a similar 'formula' described in the day, by Wm. Cleator in Essay on Shooting, 1789, but not quite. "Others again lay down as a rule for the charge of powder, a measure of the same diameter as the barrel; and double that diameter in depth:" That would give a charge double that of your "square" charge. According to my results those charges would be much more practical and in line with what we use today.
Spence
Yes. Though I don't have that on hand (or even know where I stored it). I want to say, in a 12 bore, it was 1-1/8 oz and 75 grains FFg . . . but it has been a while.
Years (15?) back I took several "store bought" measures I had on hand and weighed out what they threw. And I also did some shot & powder by equal volume from various measures; and figured some "square loads" for various bore sizes. One interesting result was that one measure I had was mis-marked and threw 27% MORE than the calibrations showed! (i.e. "100" threw a weighed 127 gr FFFg and 122 gr FFg)
Years (15?) back I took several "store bought" measures I had on hand and weighed out what they threw. And I also did some shot & powder by equal volume from various measures; and figured some "square loads" for various bore sizes. One interesting result was that one measure I had was mis-marked and threw 27% MORE than the calibrations showed! (i.e. "100" threw a weighed 127 gr FFFg and 122 gr FFg)
rodwha
58 Cal.
Seeing that the loads are running linear does that mean an old .410 load of 1/2 oz shot would be backed by about 30 grns of 2F?
In essence I was considering something along the lines of a .410 load.
In essence I was considering something along the lines of a .410 load.
Pete G
76 Cal.
I think the Dixie catalog had a chart in the reference section.
Armored Farmer
32 Cal
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It is common (for 12 ga at least) to use the same measure for powder and shot.
1 1/4 oz measure throws about 90gr 2f
1 1/4 oz measure throws about 90gr 2f
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My understanding of "sq load" is based on shot not powder. It is as said above when the height of the shot charge is the same as its width. Given modern ballistics I have found a 12 ga 7/8 ounce, (28 gm) Bunker trap load to be quite efficient. This is the round that our Olympic shotgun folks shoot.
OK, that being said I read somewhere that during the hey day of shooting contests (live pigeons and ball trap) here in the US the old guys said (now these are not choked barrels) more shot opened the pattern while a more sq load held together better (tighter pattern). This all goes back to the days of Boragardus(sp) et al.
OK, that being said I read somewhere that during the hey day of shooting contests (live pigeons and ball trap) here in the US the old guys said (now these are not choked barrels) more shot opened the pattern while a more sq load held together better (tighter pattern). This all goes back to the days of Boragardus(sp) et al.
Dave Orchard
Pilgrim
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"Square Load" almost certainly refers to shot column being equal to bore dia.
The patterning board will tell you for sure.
Lighter shot charges pattern more evenly and usefully in choke bred cart. Guns too.
.410 1/2 oz actually has a longer kill range (for ME) than the 11/16 & 3/4 oz. loads that throw more shot but have several grouse-size holes in their patterns at the same ranges.
I apologize for using cart. Gun as an example, but .410 are cursed with long shot columns and make great cautionary examples ;-)
28 ga. Cart, guns are afflicted with factory loading s of one oz. (basically the amt. of shot the would be a moderat SIXTEEN ga. load... 3/4 oz. 28 ga. Patterns more evenly and is more pleasant to shoot.
Turner Kirkland's advice about figuring lethality was if your shot could penetrate one side of a steel can at the range you most often got a shot at your bunny or quail seems to work for me.
Dave
The patterning board will tell you for sure.
Lighter shot charges pattern more evenly and usefully in choke bred cart. Guns too.
.410 1/2 oz actually has a longer kill range (for ME) than the 11/16 & 3/4 oz. loads that throw more shot but have several grouse-size holes in their patterns at the same ranges.
I apologize for using cart. Gun as an example, but .410 are cursed with long shot columns and make great cautionary examples ;-)
28 ga. Cart, guns are afflicted with factory loading s of one oz. (basically the amt. of shot the would be a moderat SIXTEEN ga. load... 3/4 oz. 28 ga. Patterns more evenly and is more pleasant to shoot.
Turner Kirkland's advice about figuring lethality was if your shot could penetrate one side of a steel can at the range you most often got a shot at your bunny or quail seems to work for me.
Dave
rodwha
58 Cal.
Very interesting Dave. Thanks! But it brings up questions.
For one I’ve typically read that BP shot loads patterned more densely with a heavier shot load. True you lost energy down range so the effective range would be decreased, though upping the pellet size should offset this some which, to my thinking, almost seems worthless as you’ve in essence just gone back to something akin to what you would have had using the standard equal (square) load to begin with.
I’ve only ever heard of the steel can penetration in reference to turkey hunting. I often wondered if this was to replicate penetrating those feathers. To my thinking it’s always been best to shoot heads of game (speaking of small game and turkey) and so for the rabbits I’ve taken with a shotgun I’ve always aimed at say 10:30 or 1:30 so as to whack the head with the edge of the pattern leaving the body mostly unscathed.
And because I aim to hit such a small target I’ve figured a tight choke is the way to go which in theory shouldn’t require a heavier than square load anyway.
I don’t recall if I specified but I was thinking this .410 (or slightly smaller gauge) would be on an 13/16” platform. I’ve seen that it can handle a .45 cal rifled barrel.
For one I’ve typically read that BP shot loads patterned more densely with a heavier shot load. True you lost energy down range so the effective range would be decreased, though upping the pellet size should offset this some which, to my thinking, almost seems worthless as you’ve in essence just gone back to something akin to what you would have had using the standard equal (square) load to begin with.
I’ve only ever heard of the steel can penetration in reference to turkey hunting. I often wondered if this was to replicate penetrating those feathers. To my thinking it’s always been best to shoot heads of game (speaking of small game and turkey) and so for the rabbits I’ve taken with a shotgun I’ve always aimed at say 10:30 or 1:30 so as to whack the head with the edge of the pattern leaving the body mostly unscathed.
And because I aim to hit such a small target I’ve figured a tight choke is the way to go which in theory shouldn’t require a heavier than square load anyway.
I don’t recall if I specified but I was thinking this .410 (or slightly smaller gauge) would be on an 13/16” platform. I’ve seen that it can handle a .45 cal rifled barrel.
Ketchakah
40 Cal.
Stumpkillers suggestion is what i do as well.
I started with 1 to 1 measure and adjust from there. It does seem to work better with about 2/3 weight of powder to shot. But i have honestly not ever recorded it scientifically. I do know Kick is less with a lighter shot load. But its important to have enough pellets in the target area.
This is where powder charge to shot charge ratios come in. I have determined my maximum effective range and adjusted my pellet load to optimize that range.
Wow , you guys got me thinking of stuff ive not thought of for years. Its fun.
I started with 1 to 1 measure and adjust from there. It does seem to work better with about 2/3 weight of powder to shot. But i have honestly not ever recorded it scientifically. I do know Kick is less with a lighter shot load. But its important to have enough pellets in the target area.
This is where powder charge to shot charge ratios come in. I have determined my maximum effective range and adjusted my pellet load to optimize that range.
Wow , you guys got me thinking of stuff ive not thought of for years. Its fun.
Dave Orchard
Pilgrim
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Like Shawnee Mike sez, a bit less powder by volume seems to pattern better, for ME.
Also, it seemed that if you wanted a more open patter, you could "spring your rammer" on your over-shot card.
To keep from "piston ing" your overshot card back up the bore on your rammer head a few inches, either put a nick in the edge of your card, or drop them on the carpet & spear them with your awl or an ice-pick ;-)
Like Mike sez, "haven't thought about this stuff in years"
Aside: I think Rice is making a 20ga taper-choked from breach to muzzle, & I have seen tighter patterns from jug-choked barrels but I've never tried them since Iwas afraid it might possibly affect roundball accurascy.
Re. very small gauge Smoothbores: some sections of.40 to .50 cal. Smoothbore barrels were recovered from gravesites in Miss. Valley, late 1600, early 1700(?)
A friend of mine was raised in the Amazon Basin by missionary parents.
He said very small bore smooth-bores were still in common use. (Had one or two himself;-)
Said they were usually loaded with coarse shot , #4 or even #2 shot, which must have stacked almost like buckshot in larger ga. Barrel when loaded in .40 to .50 cal. Smoothbores.
Barrels were often light tubing with wire-wrapped around breech sections (!)
Dave
Also, it seemed that if you wanted a more open patter, you could "spring your rammer" on your over-shot card.
To keep from "piston ing" your overshot card back up the bore on your rammer head a few inches, either put a nick in the edge of your card, or drop them on the carpet & spear them with your awl or an ice-pick ;-)
Like Mike sez, "haven't thought about this stuff in years"
Aside: I think Rice is making a 20ga taper-choked from breach to muzzle, & I have seen tighter patterns from jug-choked barrels but I've never tried them since Iwas afraid it might possibly affect roundball accurascy.
Re. very small gauge Smoothbores: some sections of.40 to .50 cal. Smoothbore barrels were recovered from gravesites in Miss. Valley, late 1600, early 1700(?)
A friend of mine was raised in the Amazon Basin by missionary parents.
He said very small bore smooth-bores were still in common use. (Had one or two himself;-)
Said they were usually loaded with coarse shot , #4 or even #2 shot, which must have stacked almost like buckshot in larger ga. Barrel when loaded in .40 to .50 cal. Smoothbores.
Barrels were often light tubing with wire-wrapped around breech sections (!)
Dave
