Stain before or after Permalyn Sealer?

[mattacton]

Hello.

I am working on a .54cal GPR. I am going to use the Permalyn Sealer and Finish on the wood, along with Permalyn Stain.

The European walnut that the stock is made out of seems to have an open pore to it, versus a tighter pore in other hard woods. My question is, should I use the Permalyn sealer before I stain, or after I stain? Will the stain penetrate the sealer adequately if I use it after the sealer? :hmm:

 

[Harddog]

If it was me I would use the stain first and then the sealer and then the finish. I believe you could also add a little stain to the finish. As you are putting the sealer and stain on it will pick up some of the stain anyway.

Randy Hedden

 

[Zonie]

Stain works by penetrating the wood and carrying the dyes with it.
Sealer does just what the name implys, it seals the wood and prevents penetration of oils and stains.

Apply the stain before you apply the sealer.

As for the open grain in the Walnut, this is typical of the wood. Some types of Walnut have smaller grain than others but none of them have the smooth surface of Maple, Birch, Poplar and other closed grain hard woods.
You can choose to leave the grain open if you wish. Stocks finished with non glossy oils and the rough surface of the Walnut is just what some people like.
If you want to have a smooth surface, there are commercial fillers like Birchwood Casey "Gun Stock Filler, Walnut Tone" and others which will fill the grain leaving a smooth surface. This would be applied after staining.
Another method of filling the grain is to sand the stock with black "wet/dry" paper using linseed oil as a lubricant. The sanded particles are kept in the oil and worked into the grain with the sanding action.
Because the oil will prevent staining, this should be done after the stain is applied.

I would heartily recommend that you wet the surface of the wood with water and look at it in bright sunlight. What you see is what you will get without any stain at all. It will look much darker than the dry freshly sanded wood, and many people think it is just what they are after.

Because Walnut is rather dark when the surface oils/sealers are applied, adding dark stains will often make the wood look almost black.
This stained blackness often hides the beautiful grain patterns in the wood.
Be sure you really want to stain the wood before you start.

 

[Flintandsteel]

Superstition Coues,

Are you kidding me?? You must be from Arizona. (He says, looking out his window at Superstition Mountain)

:blah:
Just joking, definitely stain, then seal. A nice walnut may not need stain however. But that's up to you.
It will take either a filler or many, many coats of Permalyn to fill that grain however. I don't like the Birchwood Filler, as it is water based. You can fill just as well by wet sanding with a little Linseed, or the Permalyn itself after you have built up a few coats on the surface.
When it is filled to your liking, just let it dry good, give it a final smoothing and put a final coat on th seal it all up.

Hope this helps. Stay away from A.J. :rotf:

 

[madstone]

I agree, humbly, with your advice to think carefully about staining walnut. :thumbsup:

 

[MSW]

my woodworking experience makes me most adverse to staining walnut, so you should try the stain on 'an inconspicious area' (i use the barrel channel) before you get too enthusiastic.

other than that, i agree with zonie, who's a pretty smart fellow.

MSW