staining a stock?

[BadHorse]

i have never worked with curly maple before, so i got questions. i know how i want my stock to look when finished i just need suggestions to achieve that. these pics show what i want. how do i get there?

i really like the color and the way the curl stands out on the bottom one. help!

 

[bajabuc]

I took nitric acid and disolved #4 steelwool in it until it wouldn't disolve any more. DON'T BREATHE THE RED SMOKE!! then I added a bit of water and let it set for about a week. I made sure the wood was "in the white" and free from any grease or fingerprints. Gasline antifreeze works great. wet the wood with water...let dry...steelwool it off...wet it again and wool it off...keep doing it until the grain doesn't raise any more. I shook up the acid solution and SLATHERED it on...wear latex gloves. I made about 4 coats...wool it off between coats. Make sure you get it in the lock mortice and the patchbox wood. Then I beeswaxed it and linseed oiled it...get the stock hot and hand rub it. I oiled and waxed it 25 coats. Came out a really deep red. I used the same stuff on the barrel...browned nicely.

 

[Vaino]

Not to "bust your balloon" but saw both of these LRs at TOW this past week and their excellent photography "system" greatly enhances the color."In person", these 2 LRs don't have the vivid coloring and contrast shown in the photos. Don't get me wrong....they have nice coloring but not as outstanding as in the photos....Fred

 

[BadHorse]

ok all that considered, how do i make mine look like that?

karwelis

 

[Goldhunter]

You've got a ton of options open to you. This should get you started; As a starting point, search the Forum for Laurel Mountain Forge stains (LMF), leather dye, aquafortis, vinegar stains, Dangler's stains just to name a few. Don't use stains that are oil based. There are more tricks to this than probably anything.

Maple reacts really well to aquafortis, you put it on and then gently heat the wood to get the red/brown color. I plan on using it on my next project.

The LMF stains are good. Look at Zonie's posts on his rifle collection, a good example of colors with these stains. I've had good results with it as well.

Vinegar stains are fun to play with. Search for White Buffalo's posts on his Vinegar stain experiments. He's got some good examples.

Look at Mike Brook's gun building tutorial; it shows another technique to finishing a LR.

There are equally as many choices of finish as stains; Tung Oil, Tru Oil, Boiled Linseed oil (BLO) by itself and thinned with additional driers, wax, LMF permalyn finish, and on and on.

Most people it seems finish their rifles with a hand rubbed finish, lots of elbow grease, rubbing the finish into the wood with their finger tips. Tru Oil is a good hard finish but it does produce a very shiny appearance unless it is steel wooled down.

Again, there are a ton of options. Many who post their guns on here also give details as to the color and finish used. Look in this section at all the pictures of build you can. :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Use alcohol based stains, and test samples and mixes on scrap wood until you get the colors you want. With any maple stock, the wood itself is often going to control the tone of the colors you get. Try to use scraps from the same plank of Maple for testing.

As for finishes, I like Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil, because I does " stretch" when put on by hand- a finger dipped into the finish and then stretched over as large a surface as you can with your fingers . It dries reasonably fast. If you put too much finish on the stock and have a shiney spot or streak, use 0000 Steel Wool to take off the shine there, but I leave the rest of the finish alone.

I have also used Laurel Mountain oil finish with success. It seems to me to be thinner than the Tru-oil, but I will have to pull both bottles out at the same time to compare them to know for sure. I have not yet tried Homer Dangler's finishes, but I know Homer for the past 40 years, and have drooled over his guns at Friendship many times. Anything Homer would put his name on has to be one of the best. He sells both stains and finishes.

When the pores fill, and I begin to get a nice shiny finish over the whole stock, then I used pumice, or rottenstone, which you can buy at paint stores, and some hardware stores, to gently knock down the shine and leave a sheen or " matte " finish.

When I am done, the stock gets a coating of furniture wax, and gets waxed after its cleaned when used. Alcohol will clean off the furniture wax quickly, if you want, or think the stock needs, another coating of Oil finish on it later.

I use bore butter on the metal parts- particularly the barrel, and lockplate, to prevent rusting during storage. The wax seems to seal the browned metal very well, and resists dust particles attracting moisture to start rust spots. I found that all the oils I have used on the OUTSIDE of the barrel dry out and don't work as well as does the wax in Bore butter to keep rust away.

Caution: I don't store my guns in the shower, or in any damp environment. They are in a gunroom, which is air conditions, cool and dry. If you are a fresh air freak, and live in humid parts of the country, without using air conditioning, then I suggest a regular regime of cleaning weekly and oiling guns with Ballistol, since it seems to be the best as preventing rust of all the materials tested early on this forum.

 

[jimmytheshank]

Or you could do like I did, and after much frustration, send the rifle and a pic of what ya want to a pro and let him do it. After looking at Zonie's and Birddog6's guns, I knew I was better off letting someone else who had a LOT of experience do it. A pro has a lot of experience on color mixing and matching and might be the best option.Of course, dont let me discourage you from trying it yourself. If you wanna try it yourself though, try whatever chemicals you decide on, on a scrap piece and keep trying different colors and techniques until you get the finish you want. To enhance the stripe, you might wanna try Zonie's lye technique. It's posted somewhere around here. Personally, I like LMF stains myself.

 

[squirejohn]

I believe Jim Klein bought out and now sells the Homer Dangler line of stains and finish.

 

[shortstring]

Something to watch out for is that if you use nitric acid don't use steel wool on the wood before you stain it. Every little microscopic bit of steel left behined will give you a black dot in the wood.

I've used Homer's stains for the last 35 years. Get a dark brown & a dark reddish brown & try out different combinations. Keep in mind that you won't get a true color until you put some form of oil finish on the wood. The wood will look rather dead after staining. I personally put Homer's stain over the top of a coat of nitric without any steel in it. It sort of yellows the wood. 3 parts water to 1 part nitric & flame it with a heat gun. & yes Jim Klien did buy out Homer's stain.

Paul

 

[tg]

Below is an addy for some good tips on stock finishing, I have used the BLO/spar varn finish with good results, I think there is so info on staining as well.


http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs.htm

 

[Zonie]

karwelis:
To save you the trouble of looking thru all of my old posts, here are a few pictures of some of the guns I built.

These were all stained with alcohol based stains.
The darker ones have multiple coats of Birchwood Casey "Walnut" stain combined with either Maple or "Colonial Brown".
Colonial Brown isn't available any more but a close match would be Solar-Lux Mahogany.

All of these were first treated with a solution of lye water before the stains were applied.
IMO, this treatment cleans any oils your hands may have left on the wood. It also brings out the tannin (the woods natural brown color).
It acts on the exposed "end grain" that forms the stripes more than on the wood between them so it makes them stand out better.

Lye water can be made using dry lye (available in many hardware plumbing areas) and water.
Add the lye to the water. DO NOT add water to dry lye. I use about a tablespoon in a half cup of water.
Do not use natural hair brushes to apply this stuff. It will dissolve them. If you get it on you it will dissolve you too so be damn careful with it.
One heavy wet coat is all that is needed.
After it drys, neutralize it with vinegar.
When that's dry, apply the stains.

Remember, the color of the wood and its darkness when it is wet is just the way it will look after the oil finish coats are applied.
When the stains are dry they will look much lighter than they will after the oil gets on them.

As for the acid method (Aqua Fortis) I only tried it once and didn't have good luck with it.
That is probably my fault but I had difficulty in applying the heat to make it turn dark without burning some of the areas (which turns the acid coated wood black).

Most of the really good alcohol stains can only be bought at Woodworkers stores or from places like Track of the Wolf, MBS, or similar places that deal in muzzleloading supplies.
NEVER use one of the OIL BASED stains. They will never give you the colors and appearance you want.

By now, you have noticed that there is a lot of variation in the colors of my guns.
This is because I wanted different darknesses so the lighter colored guns were stained mainly with Maple stain. The darker ones were stained mainly with Walnut stain.
In any case, the advice of the others that you use a spare piece of wood to try the stains on is good. Just remember, each piece of wood is different and each one will be different even though the type of stain and the number of coats you apply are exactly the same.
For this reason, I suggest you use the barrel channel or the piece of wood you cut off when installing the butt plate as your test wood.

 

[BadHorse]

Zonie;
your rifles are beautiful! thats exactly the finish and look i want. when i get a little closer to staining and oiling i'm going to ask you more questions. if i get any where near the look you achived i will be a happy camper.

karwelis

 

[BadHorse]

ok i got questions. is the LMF stain an alcahol based stain, and where can i order online birch wood casey wanut and maple stains. i looked on TOTW and they have the walnut but no maple

 

[jimmytheshank]

I figured as soon as ya saw Zonie's rifles, you were gonna go ga-ga like the rest of us. LMF is alcohol-based, so it penetrates without raising the grain. Unfortunately, that Birchwood maple is no longer available according to one of the posts I saw. Go figure.

 

[BadHorse]

well at least i can get LMF maple, and walnut. then finish them out with birchwood casey true oil

karwelis

 

[jimmytheshank]

Thats what I did to a tomahawk handle for my brother. Except I used LMF Cherry and LMF Honey Maple. Then I rubbed it down with Tru-oil, He only uses it for a wall hanger anyway. Iy you dont like the glossy shine of tru-oil, you can always use 0000 steel wool to rub out the gloss.

 

[dgb]

to neutralize after lye wash how vinegar do you
use just brush on light coat or flood it.
dgb

 

[Osprey]

Another way to really make the curl pop out is to apply a base coat of bright yellow stain. I and some guys I build with use Solar Lux alcohol base stain, it looks odd when it's all yellow, but when you put the browns on over it the curl just goes ga-ga. Just saw a guy do the same idea, but used the bright orange after putting on the brown stain, he did some test strips on his wood and that worked best for that piece of maple - it looked awesome.

I told ya the yellow looks wierd...

But it comes out really nice..

different lighting...

 

[Zonie]

to neutralize after lye wash how vinegar do you
use just brush on light coat or flood it.
dgb

I brush on one fairly heavy coat of vinegar and then let it dry.
Strangely, it doesn't fizz like I would expect when mixing an base (lye) and an acid (vinegar).

I suppose you could leave the lye active but then it would get on your skin and, as I said, lye will literally dissolve your skin, hair, eyes.

By the way, lye will not attack steel, brass, bronze, or German Silver so if you have inlays or wire inlays they won't be affected.

I tried multiple coats of lye but apparently most of the woods tannin is brought to the surface with only one coat. In other words it didn't seem to make any difference.
Also, with a blond wood like Maple lye water doesn't make the wood darken a lot.
In fact, when you first apply it the wood will just look like wet wood. Then as it drys it will darken.

As for lye water being PC, it has been used on fine woods for hundreds of years.

I also need to point out that this is a water based treatment so it is imperative that you whisker the wood at least twice before using this procedure. If you don't whisker the surfaces it will raise the grain leaving a fuzzy finish. If you then lightly sand off the whiskers you will remove most of the light brown color you just worked so hard to make.

I DO NOT recommend using lye on a dark wood like Walnut. It will turn the wood black which will cover any nice grain that the wood had.