standing breech, use in underhammers

[faw3]

Can anyone tell me what is ment by standing breech was used in kendall underhammer rifels bought by state of Texzs for army and Tex rangers in 1835 / and or Smiths Patent breech. thank ya. :front: :front:

 

[waturz]

FW,

I dont want to hijack your thread, but could you point me to where you have found reference to these rifles being purchased or used by the Rangers? Being a Texan I am naturally interested in Ranger history. Any info you can point too will be appreciated. Thanks!

I'm familiar with the Smiths Patent Breech carbine, but I was thinking that this was a later development in rifle technology (Ca. 1857 or so) than 1835. I dont know if this is the same rifle to which you may be refering or when the Smith carbine actually came into being. There are repro Smith's carbines available out there too, and quite a bit of info available via the internet. I have been looking at the Kendall underhammer rifles for sale by auction houses and thinking about how I could modify one of the Blue Grouse actions to closely approximate one of these designs. I looked again and did not see any reference to a standing breech so again, I may be looking at a completely different design.

Good luck with your research!

 

[waturz]

FW,

I went back and looked at the auction pages (http://julia.hanovercomputer.com/fall04/catalog/Owens%20Day%20Two.htm) that had the Kendall underhammer rifles.

There is one rifle pictured that has the following description:

CONVERTED KENDALL UNDERHAMMER RIFLE. Cal. 44. 26" octagonal bbl, marked "N. KENDALL / WINDSOR VT / PATENT" on top of the bbl and "SMITH

 

[faw3]

Got this from a story out of I think the Dallas Mornning News and page 5 MUZ BLAST JULY 2001 and the rifle used by Hayes(enchanted rock) IM trying to hook them all together too,State of Texas did buy them and Im looking for the jumping like the Texas Navys Paterson Colts ending up with the Rangers if you come up with anyt more please let know finding anything in print thats not Texas lore (read as same as history fact)is just DM hard, the picture of the Smith PAT is a fine3 engraved ML underhammer not Smith your refering to. All this got started by looking at a list of guns,how many of each,ect,at the call up?,of the 1st TX cav Terrys Rangers, and maybe the Cherokee Braves. IM bed bound but Ill try to get my kid to bring the box with that book in it,hope that helps,(also they had a lot of them on the wall at Fort Fisher/Texas Ranger musuem 10 yrs or more back, till the new directer had all the guns taken out Patersons,Walkers,ect Because "they have nothing to do with the T.R.s" HUH say what! :front: :front:

 

[faw3]

Thank you much for that Im trying to build a copy of Enchanted rock battle rifle just need a pic of how the standing breech works.that would be the 1835 Kendall like in 2001 july Muz blast I belive. I saw it long ago and its hard to rememmber except for the sights peep disk and extra small and thin wire with bead front. :front: :front:

 

[lanedh]

Every Kendall underhammer rifle I have seen (including mine) has the Smith's Improved Patent Stud Lock marking on the top of the breech. Kendall's name and address stamp always (now I've opened a can of worms) appears on the barrel. The breech design incorporates a flat mainspring fastened by a screw to the inside of the lower rail of the breech assembly, bearing on the underside of the hammer. The hammer has no halfcock position, and the trigger engages directly into a square notch on the hammer body.

I'm taking a leap of faith here, but isn't it possible that Kendall acquired the breech plug/lock/trigger assembly from another source (Mr. Smith?) and fitted the barrel, stock and hardware to it to make the finished gun? The gun's serial number is stamped on the face of the muzzle and on the heel of the buttplate, but I cannot find any stampings or numbers anywhere on the breechplug assembly except the Smith markings cited above. Kinda lends support to my theory, but anybody is welcome to rebut it. I for one would like to finally know the relationship between Kendall and Smith. (BTW, a desultory search of patent records revealed no patent for a gun lock design by Smith; however, the terms 'patent' and 'improved' were freely taken by enterprising businessmen, as was "Doctor" (as in Dr. Samuel Colt of nitrous oxide fame).

 

[faw3]

you went right over my head with that one (im haveing a bad bad day) what holds the barrel to the wood please the hammer seems to butt right up to the back of the barrel! thank ya for any kind of help! :huh: :front:

 

[lanedh]

'Morning, FW--
The standing breech used by Kendall (and Burnside Rifle Works and other) is a steel casting almost exactly like the breech assemblies used in the modern underhammer guns that have appeared in recent postings on the Forum. The breechplug is part of the same part that houses the trigger and hammer pivot. The breech extends to the rear with a tang on the top and a bar mounting the trigger and mainspring. Screws through the tang and trigger bar attach the buttstock to the breech. The breechplug part has a recessed powder cavity and a male (exterior) thread. The barrel screws down over the breech part until it butts up against the face of the breech assembly. Some take-down buggy rifles were made the same way, even if not underhammers. Hope this clears things up, if not PM me.
Bluejacket