static spark

[JNG]

I know BP uses metal containers not plastic due to the dangers of a static spark. Is there a polymer container the size of a test tube (100 grains) that can hold BP with out a danger of an setoff? If not, what can be used to preload 4 or 5 shots for hunting?

Joe

 

[roundball]

I know BP uses metal containers not plastic due to the dangers of a static spark. Is there a polymer container the size of a test tube (100 grains) that can hold BP with out a danger of an setoff? If not, what can be used to preload 4 or 5 shots for hunting?
Joe

There are some test results floating around the Internet which indicate static does not ignite BP...it takes heat to ignite BP like the red hot pieces of steel from a frizzen falling into the prime or hot flame from a cap to ignite the powder...but apparently the heat is either not there or is insufficient in a static spark...just passing on what I've seen/read about...not an authority on it.

However, BP supply houses carry packs of "plastic" reloading tubes made to carry premeasured powder or shot charges...as well as "plastic" so called speed-loaders that carry everything for a complete reload.

A cheap alternative is to get some free 35mm film canisters from most any photo developing place...I'd carry them inside a ziploc bag however in case one of them accidently pops open.
(I've used them for years to take a few dozen premeasured charges to the range)

 

[bwhoffman]

most all the speed loaders I have seen are PLASTIC or poly! and the 35mm film canisters a lot of folks use for same purpose are plastic.

How about using metal cigar tubes or antique 35mm film cans with thescrew-on lids, they were metal!

 

[roundball]

Another alternative is blood collection vials...even tho they are glass they are very thick and extremely strong...dropped them on the kitchen floor and they don't break...had to drop a hammer head a few inches before they broke...this size holds just over 100grns. (got them off EBay for a few bucks)

 

[JNG]

I like the cigar tin idea, plus you get to smoke the cigar. The tubes will work if you use the red top, though they are hard to pop open. When I hunt, I like to go light and as with my bow I never take more then 3 arrows so why would I take more then 3 shots worth of powder? Thanks for the responses.

Joe

 

[playfarmers]

I have cut a few pieces of copper water pipe with one end cap soldered on and the other cap a slip on fit. I have 4 plastic speed loaders and 6 copper pipes, so I get 10 shots berfore I have to stop and measure out more charges. This works good for me at the range.

 

[AeroncaTAL]

We have a bag full of plastic 35mm film canisters. I used a few of these to old loads during hunting this year. Worked great.
Scott

 

[paulvallandigham]

Static Electricity is not the danger you believes.

See:[url] http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html[/url]

YOu can see clearly from the text and pictures that static electricity travels around the surface of BP granules and not through them. The heat needed to ignite them is just not generated. There is NO advantage to using cans vs. plastic to ship or store Black Powder. The use of opaque plastic containers is so some nitwit doesn't leave the container sitting in the hot sun, say, inside he car,where enough heat can build up in a glass container, or even a clear plastic container, to ignite the powder. ( Think of the clear plastice peanut butter jars as an example of what I am speaking about.)

 

[No Deer]

Sorry to get slightly off topic, but the danger to black powder from static is with the fine black powder dust particles that float in the air. That is what causes the explosions at the gun powder plants. The same thing can happen at sawmills with the fine sawdust particles in the air.

 

[tg]

As stated static charge will not ignite BP, I doubt that a plastic container is much different tnam a cow horn, we yused to by bulk BP in plastic bags to save some money and reuse the old cans....one more myth busted..

 

[mazo kid]

Yep, and there are black powder companies packaging their powder in plastic containers now instead of the tin cans. Emery

 

[BrownBear]

You know, there's static spark and then there's static spark.

Get up into the Alaska Interior in winter at -30 or -40 with zero % humidity in the air, and you'll scare yourself silly. I'm talking about walking on a synthetic carpet in a hotel hallway, and reaching for the door knob of your room. You can jump a 1" blue spark from your hand to the knob with a crack loud enough to make you jump. And I'm here to tell you that it has enough energy to sting like the dickens when you do it.

Not sure what it has to do with anything, but this kid isn't going to be using any plastics for holding powder in really cold dry weather. I'm also not going to be wearing a nylon jacket.

Sure the word is out that it takes heat rather than spark, but at some point sparks generate heat, and there's no way around it. I'm not willing to test the limits, and I'm not going to stand next to you while you test them either.

I figure if static spark is enough to cause explosions with fine dust in flour mills, coal mines and fireworks factories, there's going to be some point at which you get enough static spark to turn the whole "no danger from static spark" into a very loud wives tale. YMMV, but as I said, don't stand next to me while you test it.

 

[mykeal]

Interesting experiment, and it does illustrate some interesting physics. But it's incomplete.

Yes, electricity does not 'flow through' the bp cyrstals. And yes, (for that reason) does not heat them up. And yes, heat is what is needed to get the crystals to ignite. All that is fine and dandy. Gee, bp must be safe to handle without concern for static electricity, right?

Wrong.

The issue is not the bp crystals, it's other impurities that DO conduct, with significant resistivity, and thus DO get heated up by static electricity. All we need is a small bit of resistive material in the powder to get sufficiently heated by a static electricity spark and, well, the results of the experiment are just a bit different.

So, if the plastic container can generate a spark, and if the powder contains some foreign material with the right dielectric properties, we have the potential for a problem.

I think, anyway. Is that correct?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Saw dust is made of wood, and does act as a resistor. It will build up heat from static electricity, and being dust, it will burn quickly. That is the cause of those explosions, really just a rapid burning of wood particles in an oxygen rich environment. Its like saying Oxygen will explode. Yes, Oxygen does explode, if under pressure and heated sufficiently to rupture the container its in so that all the oxygen released is heated to its flashpoint. But, without the pressure, oxygen does not " explode".

There are three main components to black Powder. Present in all air will be water, and trace elements. Static electricity has more of a chance of burning that plastic bottle, than it does the powder in it. Glass bottles present a problem because of glass' ability to bend and focus light to make heat. ( Refraction) That is why powder is stored and shipped in cans( cheap, but very strong) or plastic ( cheaper). ut the plastic bottles will be opaque to keep light from being bent and focused to cause heat.

 

[Zonie]

I think if plastic containers were a big concern, Swiss Powder wouldn't be packaged in the plastic containers if comes in.
If a person doesn't want to take chances with plastic containers then they shouldn't buy Swiss brand Black Powder. :hmm:

 

[djnye]

that is like saying that oxygen gets oxidized. that is ridiculous.

 

[Rod Lassey]

I doubt there's much to worry about with the small sparks we're talking about here, but static electricity can do weird things. Lightning is static electricity, after all, and anyone who believes there's no heat there to set off blackpowder can experiment by standing on a hill during a thunderstorm while holding a metal can of 2F over their head.

By the way, there is an interesting account of a Union soldier durning the CW who was struck by lightning--he was wearing a pair of revolvers. All the charges went, shredding his legs. As I recall, the lighting didn't kill him, instead he bled to death.

Rod

 

[Dave K]

Your right about Swiss and don't forget Schuetzen powders. I am very brave, I shoot them both. :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

The metal of his guns provided the resistance that got hot enough to ignite the charges.

There are accounts of people being struck by lightning and suffering no burns, or ill effects.

 

[tg]

If there was any danger in using plstic to store BP the regs. would not allow them to ship it in plastic bags or containers.