I use a plastic container made from an empty eye drop bottle to dispense 4F priming powder at the range for my flinter. Are there any reports that static sparks from using plastic powder containers have ever ignited a main charge in the barrel?
Static Sparks Ignition
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Mark Lewis said:
Mark got to you first....I was going to say that many powder companies are supplying their powder in plastic "cans" now. Other than not being very PC, I see nothing wrong with using your method at the range. Many years ago there was a company giving away very fine black powder (dust) in small plastic jars at Friendship, said to use it for clearing a barrel when dry balled or damp powder.
paulvallandigham
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For what its worth, read this site:
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html
It clearly shows that static electricity does not ignite black powder.
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html
It clearly shows that static electricity does not ignite black powder.
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civiljar said:
"Static" electricity cannot ignite black powder. An electrical charge, like a "spark plug", might.
paulvallandigham
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You can bet your last dollar that the new " Electric Start gun " will be using some kind of Substitute powder, and NOT Black Powder.
As I understand the problem, for black powder to be ignited the electric charge has to generate enough heat to ignite the powder. For reasons, I am sure some engineer who is a member here will tell us, static electricity does not create the heat. Now, a spark from an igniter should do that simply because of the nature of how the electric spark is created. The issue has something to do with ohms, and black powder not having the resistance to create ohms, or sufficient quantities of them, or some such. I am sure someone else more learned about electricity will help us all out.
As I understand the problem, for black powder to be ignited the electric charge has to generate enough heat to ignite the powder. For reasons, I am sure some engineer who is a member here will tell us, static electricity does not create the heat. Now, a spark from an igniter should do that simply because of the nature of how the electric spark is created. The issue has something to do with ohms, and black powder not having the resistance to create ohms, or sufficient quantities of them, or some such. I am sure someone else more learned about electricity will help us all out.
Actually Paul, that's not a bad explanation at all.
The key to the whole thing is heat. Black powder is sensitive to heat; that is, it takes heat, a lot of it, to set it off.
Heat is a form of energy; light is another form, and electricity is a third form. In order to start the chain reaction we call ignition in black powder using electricity, you need to change the form of energy from electricity to heat. The way to do that is to pass the electricity through some form of resistance. That's how a light bulb works: pass the electricity through a thin wire that resists the movement of the electrons and the form of energy changes to light and heat.
The term "ohms" refers to the ability of various materials to resist the passage of electricity. It's simply a a physical property like density or weight or color; some materials have more than others.
Black powder, synthetic or otherwise, is essentially a conductor of electricity. It has very low resistance to the passage of electricity, and so it does not heat up significantly when electricity passes through it. This is true regardless of the source of the electricity, whether from a static charge or a battery. I should also mention that the amount of electricity does matter somewhat. Extremely high amounts of electricity can cause even low resistance materials to get warm - that's the reason I put the word 'significantly' in quotes above. Size matters.
So, in the normal world, black powder actually allows electricity to pass through without heating up and thus is not ignited. What changes that? The presence of some highly resistive material in or near the black powder. Black powder contaminated with material that resists the passage of electricity is obviously very dangerous in the presence of static electricity.
In the case of the electronic ignition bp rifles, a battery is used to charge a device called a capacitor. This creates a condition where a very large amount of electricity is stored up. The electrical charge is released across a small gap in a device like the spark plug in a car; the quick release of a large amount of electricity heats up the material forming the gap, causing ignition of the black powder.
For the purists: These reactions can be quite complex. For example, I resisted the temptation to discuss spontaneous combustion of dust particles, which can occur in the very fine dust sometimes associated with black powder. So, I admit to some poetic license for simplification in the above discussion, but the basic principles are intact.
The key to the whole thing is heat. Black powder is sensitive to heat; that is, it takes heat, a lot of it, to set it off.
Heat is a form of energy; light is another form, and electricity is a third form. In order to start the chain reaction we call ignition in black powder using electricity, you need to change the form of energy from electricity to heat. The way to do that is to pass the electricity through some form of resistance. That's how a light bulb works: pass the electricity through a thin wire that resists the movement of the electrons and the form of energy changes to light and heat.
The term "ohms" refers to the ability of various materials to resist the passage of electricity. It's simply a a physical property like density or weight or color; some materials have more than others.
Black powder, synthetic or otherwise, is essentially a conductor of electricity. It has very low resistance to the passage of electricity, and so it does not heat up significantly when electricity passes through it. This is true regardless of the source of the electricity, whether from a static charge or a battery. I should also mention that the amount of electricity does matter somewhat. Extremely high amounts of electricity can cause even low resistance materials to get warm - that's the reason I put the word 'significantly' in quotes above. Size matters.
So, in the normal world, black powder actually allows electricity to pass through without heating up and thus is not ignited. What changes that? The presence of some highly resistive material in or near the black powder. Black powder contaminated with material that resists the passage of electricity is obviously very dangerous in the presence of static electricity.
In the case of the electronic ignition bp rifles, a battery is used to charge a device called a capacitor. This creates a condition where a very large amount of electricity is stored up. The electrical charge is released across a small gap in a device like the spark plug in a car; the quick release of a large amount of electricity heats up the material forming the gap, causing ignition of the black powder.
For the purists: These reactions can be quite complex. For example, I resisted the temptation to discuss spontaneous combustion of dust particles, which can occur in the very fine dust sometimes associated with black powder. So, I admit to some poetic license for simplification in the above discussion, but the basic principles are intact.
paulvallandigham
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Thanks, Mykeal, for coming to my rescue! :surrender: :thumbsup: I knew someone would do a better job of explaining why static electricity doesn't ignite BP in most cases, while someone can be planning to have an electronic ignition MLer! At least I feel better knowing that the matter is as complex as I suggested it was! :shocked2: :hatsoff:
