Steel Molds

[Cowboy]

As you already know if you have followed a couple of my topics I've created recently, that I am changing over from Lee aluminum molds to Lyman steel molds. I already have some of them and the rest already purchased and on their way in. I ran about 6,000(+) balls last summer with the aluminum molds. This year I am running with all steel molds. Never ran with steel molds before, so I am asking you casters out there for any tips/tricks of the trade in using steel molds? I have already done some research and visited castboolits website. This forum I trust the most and value your opinions and advice above all others. Now that I'm off my soap box, I am asking what differences have you noticed using steel vs aluminum? (1) Smoke or not? (2) solidify time difference? (3) will I have to make a temperature adjustment on my lead, a little cooler? (4) Will steel molds get hotter than aluminum molds? I do know that the steel molds retain hot temps. alot longer than aluminum, and cool down alot slower than aluminum. (5) Steel mold prep. (6) steel mold storage. I am not new to casting but new to casting with steel molds. I would appreciate an education on what I listed above, to include anything else you think I should be aware of. Thanks guys! Respectfully, Cowboy :hatsoff:

 

[Treestalker]

Don't dip the edge of your steel molds in the lead, you can warp them. Just let them heat up for a few balls, then they run fine. I try to alternate two molds to keep the heat even. After use, let them cool and lightly oil them inside and out with a q-tip to prevent rust. before use, I always clean off the oil with rubbing alcohol and smoke the inside with a kitchen match. I let the first ball sit in the mould after cutting the sprue, while I cast the second, then remove it and subsequent pours as they cool to sprue cutting hardness. I see no difference in quality of balls between aluminum and steel molds, but others may disagree. I use Lee and Lyman molds, other brands may differ. Hope this helps, good luck with your casting. George. P.S., Please send any unwanted aluminum molds to me postage due and your donation will be blessed to help two young ML shooters learn to cast. G.

 

[fleener]

I use only steel molds.

One of my steel molds I have to run with the temp lower than the others as the lead will actually flow into the small lines on the mold and give me whiskers if I dont.

I use a bullet mold release on my molds, just spray a then coat on the mold.

I never oil my molds, just store them in a gun safe with a dehumidifier rod. Never have any rust or issues.

Fleener

 

[necchi]

(1) I have never smoked any mold and never had an issue with hang-ups. I use a tiny amount of Permatex Anti-seize on the guide pins and under the sprue plate, but never in or near the cavity.
(2,3,4) Are all related and you said it, they retain heat much-much more than aluminum. You'll see somewhere around 30-40 ball that the heat retention will change the "solidify time" and you'll need to change rhythm or melt temp.

I only run a few casting sessions a year and do so in the spring and fall when ambient temps are 50-60°, it's just no fun sitting there with sweat running down while casting. So those ambient temps affect the rhythm, 50° is different than 90°.
I always float the steel molds in the melt and have never harmed them, if I don't it takes 30-40 ball to get the mold up to temp..
(5)When finished the last ball in the cast stay's in the closed mold, after it cools I wipe the outside with an oil rag and that's all I've ever done,, the molds are fine in their box out in the garage.
New molds need to be cleaned really well, they have a packing grease on them that has to come off and likewise when I use them after storage,, the oil has to come off.
If you've been to Cast Boolits, you know techniques are varied. There really isn't one best way,, there are several techniques that work well, you'll find yours.

 

[Cowboy]

Thanks necchi, As usual you have answered all my questions in fine detail. I appreciate the education. I appreciate everyone else's responses as well. Thankyou! Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[M. De Land]

Couple of tips that will help you up the trail.
1. When you get the iron molds, they are made of fine grain cast iron, clean them up with acetone or brake cleaner.
2. When smoking them all that is needed is a fine barely discernible even film. If they get sooty you've gone to far and it will show up as an imprint in your casts. Many folks over smoke them.
3. Replace the sprue plate with a thicker one than comes from Lyman, especially if you ever cast bullets, balls are easy and quite forgiving but as you are after perfection a heavy sprue plate from Brownells' I think sells them, will make a better casting.
4. Coat the top of the block under the sprue plate and the bottom of the plate with lead from a carpenters pencil.
This will give you cleaner sprue cuts and keep both surfaces from leading up or galling.
5.Lube the pins, sprue and handle pivot with bees wax or graphite. Don't get either in the mold cavity.
6. Don't leave a ball in the mold for any kind of rust protection. Coat them with a good rust preventative if you are going to store them.
7. Make sure pins are tight but not proud. Test this by twisting the blocks and see if there is any lateral movement.
Hold the molds closed and up to a good light and see if they are closing completely.
8. Opening a mold does not require a wrap on the handle pivot initially but rather a push on the lower right hand corner with your knocker after cutting the sprue.
If the ball doesn't dislodge than a small wrap with a stick of wood or rawhide hammer on the handle pivot will bring it out.
Mold warping from corner dipping is a wives tail and has no basis in fact with either aluminum or cast iron. Most of what folks believe is mold warpage is actually alignment pin over protrusion or vent debris.
Lyman nor any other production molds I know of are made of steel.
I have personally made some of steel though and they work OK but are much harder to cherry cut and do not seem to transfer heat as well as the fine grain cast iron.
I've made them both with a cherry and lathe bored.
One more thing, pull the sprue plate,new or replaced and make sure the bottom of the sprue plate hole is sharp, flat and clean.
If they are rough and not flat they will gall the mold top in short order.
Happy precision casting! Took me fifty years to pick up and test these tips your getting up front! :grin:

 

[Rifleman1776]

You have way more casting experience than many others here. I don't agree with all you are doing or some of the others comments. But, what works, works. Personally, I do not see any need to change from Lee to Lyman moulds. I prefer Lyman but Lee do work fine for me. I float all moulds on top of the lead to pre-heat and it causes no problems. I have an anti-rust I spray on my steel/iron moulds between uses. On new moulds I spray with a mould release. And, I do smoke mine. Really, only do it because so many olde timers say you should. Can't say it helps or hurts.

 

[M. De Land]

Good post Bill,if you ever have occasion to use a mold that is a bit out of line or the cavity corroded you will quickly put to rest wither or not proper smoking has any benefit.
Most folks over smoke as I did for years until reading an article on not getting them sooted up.
This has a couple of bad aspects to it.
It leaves imprints on the casting, plugs vent line efficiency which effects fill out, release and ball diameter.

 

[TNGhost]

I use both and prefer the Lee aluminum, largely depends on the bullet design availability though. No complaints with the others.

I always have used a rust preventative on the iron ones, not on the aluminum, and used acetone or brake/carb cleaner before smoking.

I guess the one thing I can add to those posters above,(all good info BTW),is that the iron ones, though they take longer to heat up, stay in the "sweet spot" for casting longer than aluminum. Although I usually just compensate by rotating molds as I cast.

A fan positioned strategically can be a help with mold temps also, as well as with ventilation.

 

[Idaho Ron]

As you already know if you have followed a couple of my topics I've created recently, that I am changing over from Lee aluminum molds to Lyman steel molds. I already have some of them and the rest already purchased and on their way in. I ran about 6,000(+) balls last summer with the aluminum molds. This year I am running with all steel molds. Never ran with steel molds before, so I am asking you casters out there for any tips/tricks of the trade in using steel molds? I have already done some research and visited castboolits website. This forum I trust the most and value your opinions and advice above all others. Now that I'm off my soap box, I am asking what differences have you noticed using steel vs aluminum? (1) Smoke or not? (2) solidify time difference? (3) will I have to make a temperature adjustment on my lead, a little cooler? (4) Will steel molds get hotter than aluminum molds? I do know that the steel molds retain hot temps. alot longer than aluminum, and cool down alot slower than aluminum. (5) Steel mold prep. (6) steel mold storage. I am not new to casting but new to casting with steel molds. I would appreciate an education on what I listed above, to include anything else you think I should be aware of. Thanks guys! Respectfully, Cowboy :hatsoff:

I just ran a huge batch of bullets for me. With culling I bet I did close to 2000 bullets and kept about 1100 or so.

#1-I don't like to smoke a mould unless it is real sticky. If the bullets are not falling out I will give it a light smoke. If you smoke a mold you will get some wrinkles from the smoke if it is not on even. Also smoke will affect the weight of the bullet to some degree.

#2& #3-It will take several minutes longer to get a steel mould up to temp.I also dip the corner in the lead. You will not warp a steel mould by dipping it in lead that is most likely under 500 degrees. If the pure lead gets mush hotter than 450 it will start turning colors as the lead is oxidizing. If it gets hot enough it will make your bullets look dirty even though you flux and skim. If that happens you need to back off the temp. WHen you pour the lead inot the mould make sure you leave a good sized puddle on top of the spru plate. I leave a spot the size of a quarter. This gets the spru plate HOT and in my opinion a lot of guys miss that. If that plate stays hot the mould can draw some lead into it as it cools. By keeping that plate HOT you will get the heaviest bullet for that mould.
#4- I think you could get the steel mould hotter than the aluminum but you don't need to. You just need it hot enough to make good bullets without over cooking the lead.
#5 I clean the moulds with dish soap before I cast. I blow it out with a compressor. Then I put the corner in the lead and let it get hot. This will get rid of any left over moisture.
#6- I clean the mould after use and I use a liberal amount of rem oil in it on it and around it. I keep them oiled so I don't fight rust. I can clean the oil off with dish soap.

Last in my opinion with my moulds my Steel moulds are WAY more accurate for throwing the target weight. I think a lot if it is because it stays hotter. I am comparing a Lee mould against a RCBS mould. I think the RCBS is a better mould but it is also a lot more money. I have several Lyman steel moulds and some are good. I like RCBS better.

 

[Cowboy]

You have way more casting experience than many others here. I don't agree with all you are doing or some of the others comments. But, what works, works. Personally, I do not see any need to change from Lee to Lyman moulds. I prefer Lyman but Lee do work fine for me.

I appreciate and respect your opinions and what you say does make perfect sense. The reason I am switching over to steel molds are do to Quality and inconsistent weight variations between molds with the same diameter. For example, I have 3 Lee .490 molds. Each mold will pretty much cast a given weight for that specific mold. All 3 molds, even though they are listed as 176gr. molds vary up to 3 grains from each other. I know this because I record the weight of every ball and from what mold it was casted from. Been doing this from day one. I have multiple molds for .440 and .530 as well. All the balls weights are consistent with each other from that same specific mold. But all the molds that are of the same ball diameter vary from 2 to 3 gr. difference. I know what each individual mold will put out. I end up using only the mold that puts out balls closest to my target weight. Lee molds can put out a very good ball but the tolerances for the same diameter mold vary to much for my liking. I have studied this problem, done alot of research and asked a zillion questions. The conclusion that I had came up with is that the steel molds from Lyman, RCBS, products are superior to Lee's aluminum molds. I am going by an over all consensus by other casters that I have studied and by all the reviews I've read. I will wait and see when I have been casting from them for a while. Then I can make an informed decision as to which I think is better in QC and closer tolerances. This is just the way my mind works, and to alot of people, I am just waisting my time and effort. Maybe their right! But it is just the way I am and the way I want to be! I want to be as good as I can possibly be and work as hard as I know how to achieve my goals. The number one thing for me is to learn from others as well as doing my part as well. Sorry for the long drawn out reply, but I wanted everyone to know how I am. It's just me! Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[necchi]

Sorry for the long drawn out reply,

No problem, but helps us olde guy's out a bit and try using a paragraph every now an then,, makes it easier to read.

 

[Cowboy]

Sorry for the long drawn out reply,

No problem, but helps us olde guy's out a bit and try using a paragraph every now an then,, makes it easier to read.

No problem necchi, I will try to condense my replies down into a short sweet paragraph in my future posts. My mind tends to work a million miles mph and I tend to type everything Im thinking at the time. I will make it " Short, Sweet, and Simple " in the future. Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[M. De Land]

Not a single one of your RCBS or Lyman molds is made of steel. I have made molds from blocks coming from both companies and as soon as you turn it in a lathe it is readily apparent it is not made of steel.
They are made of fine grain cast iron often referred to in the industry as "Mehanite" (sp).
It is soft and grainy when being turned and the chips become dust falling apart off the cutting tool edge.

 

[TNGhost]

Cowboy, you may also want to check out NEI Handtools, Inc. down in El Paso,915-772-0259. I'm pretty sure they offer round ball molds.

I own one of their molds, a .45 design, in mehanite, made for paper patching. Definitely a high quality mold, but I have no experience with their round ball molds.

 

[Cowboy]

I will look into that. Thankyou for the information! Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[Rifleman1776]

the iron ones, though they take longer to heat up, stay in the "sweet spot" for casting longer than aluminum.

My method, and I believe the best one, for preventing problems with the faster cooling aluminum moulds is to develop a rythm for your work. In other words, do each cast the same way, same movements, that will give the same time between each pour and keep the mould at optimum tempurature. In fact, I believe this is what MUST be done to obtain consistent quality.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Very interesting. And, I do not doubt your findings one bit. While I use them, I am not a fan of the Lee company or it's products. But, my pocketbook often dictates choices. That said, different Lee moulds of (supposedly) the same caliber often will vary in size and weight of the cast ball. But, if you stick with the same mould, you will receive consistent results. Having several of the same size and switching between them is asking for inconsistency. Steel/iron are, without doubt, better quality. Do what you want and can afford. :thumbsup:

 

[Boomerang]

Wonder why RCBS doesn't make RB molds for 54 cal? :idunno:

 

[TNGhost]

Very interesting. And, I do not doubt your findings one bit. While I use them, I am not a fan of the Lee company or it's products. But, my pocketbook often dictates choices. That said, different Lee moulds of (supposedly) the same caliber often will vary in size and weight of the cast ball. But, if you stick with the same mould, you will receive consistent results. Having several of the same size and switching between them is asking for inconsistency. Steel/iron are, without doubt, better quality. Do what you want and can afford. :thumbsup:

I really have never seen that much difference in quality or consistency in projectiles or on targets, between the different molds, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't have the penchant for attention to detail and recordkeeping that Cowboy has :bow: :grin: .

On the Lees, I have three of the same mold designed for .30, it being the only one I have paid super close attention to. As far as weight and diameter, I find virtually no difference, from one to the other, when using them in a rotation to control temprature. I bought them all together at one time, with that plan in mind, which may have something to do with the manufacturing specs.

Alloy makeup and consistent technique and temperature in pouring, fluxing and adding metal have made more of a difference to me. I have Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Hoch, NEI and SAECO molds and all perform well. The only one I've ever sent back was a Lyman that was badly misaligned and I have to think that was an aberration.

The only real differences to me between aluminum and iron is the extra warm up time, and time at temperature, the extra concerns for rust prevention and attendant clean up, and of course the considerable cost.

IMHO, when It comes to casting, there really isn't any right way only what works for you, and I am always looking for ways to try out to improve my methods.

Lee makes some good stuff and some inovative stuff, I'll buy from them without reserrvation when it fits my needs. For instance their 6 cavity "commercial" mold handles fit Lyman, RCBS, etc., work and cost a heck of a lot less, so I'll use those with all molds that fit.

YMMV