Steel ramrod tips

[taylorh]

So I'm still looking for a wooden tc ramrod for a 12 gauge new englander. I decided that maybe I should go ahead and make one. I like the non-flashy looks of tc's blued steel ramrod tips and had just about decided to go ahead and order a 27" rod with the steel tips when I got to thinking... doesn't steel on steel spark? Is that why most ramrod tips are brass? Maybe yes? I don't know. It seems that if there was any real danger of spark ignited ignition that tc wouldn't use steel tips, but of course they do. So what do you guys think? Are steel ramrod tips safe?
Taylor in Texas

 

[54ball]

Steel is safe. I'm not saying it is impossible to make a steel ramrod tip spark a barrel but it is practically impossible. Steel sparks when a harder object like a rock or higher carbon steel strikes the softer steel shaving off a near microscopic fragment. Velocities haft to be tremendous for steel to spark steel. For example a chainsaw or rotary sawblade may spark a nail. Basically you would haft to shoot the ramrod tip first from one barrel into another and maybe it would spark. Also keep in mind that most saws use a very hard and high carbon steel. Sheet steel vs mild barrel steel the chances of a spark even at a super velocity are slim, very slim.

 

[flashpanner]

I prefer brass tips any day! There is very little chance that it will marr the bore. It is softer than steel and therefore not damage or change any thing in the bore. Persally, I'd never put anything steel down my barrel.

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Steel is safe. Iron ramrods were service issue from at least the middle of the 18th century until the end of muzzleloading martial arms.

Brass will mar a bore quicker than iron. The brass itself isn't the problem, but being relatively soft will pick up more abrasives than steel. For cleaning a rifle I wouldn't use anything but steel. For cleaning a smoothbore, use whatever you want since it's not likely to have much impact on "accuracy" anyway.

 

[khwils]

I have to comment on this from experience. Also, I would like to point out that we were quite young and I didn't used to tell people this because I didn't want to put any ideas into youngsters heads and it was foolish. My friends and i made a "gun" barrel by taking a pipe and pounding the end down flat and folding it over a few times and squashing it in the vice. We drilled a hole in the end of the pipe just above the folded over part at the "breech" Sounding dangerous and foolish enough yet - yee gads! We did proof test it and we never ever held it when we fired it off. We would always prop it on something or jammed it in the ground. We used marbles for our "roundball" - yee gads again! Now for our propellant, we went to the local corner grocery store and bought whole boxes of matches. Back then a whole box of books of matches cost about a quarter. we would then open the matchbooks and cut the heads off with a utility knife - can I say yee gads again. We used cannon fuse for our ignition. We used a long steel rod with a carriage bolt head on it as a rammer. One day a friend was ramming the load and it went off. We were lucky, the rod was never found as it went skyward. My friend's hand was bleeding badly on the side from the tip of his pinkie almost to his wrist from the concussion/flames where he had his hand wrapped around the rammer. We never played with it again nor spoke of it outside of our ring. But man could that thing whip a marble through a standing field of corn! STEEL ON STEEL WILL CREATE SPARKS. I was standing 3 feet away as a witness, I had front row seat and felt the heat. I've only been a black powder shooter since I was about 16, I started with muzzleloaders at about 12 then! :shocked2: OOPS, I wanted to add one more thing - anyone want to hold on to the ramrod in the barrel when it goes off - I don't.

 

[Leatherbark]

You dont think the friction caused the match powder to ignite? Probably as it was rammed and the match heads were scrunching together. KaBoom................Bob

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Good story. I don't have the technical knowledge to analyze why your cannon cooked off, but might suggest it had something to do with the condition of the pipe as well as the propellant. If your friend was mashing or pushing those friction match heads against the sides of mons meg, they may have ignited. Match heads are supposed to ignite afterall with friction.

I've been shooting backpowder since 1965, and used to shoot smoothbore musket in rapid fire comeptition. I had a Short land musket with iron rammer and later switched to a long land pattern with wooden rammer. I personally never had a cookoff, but have seen plenty of them. The muskets generally cooked off because exposed threads at the breech held an ember that either ignited the next load of powder immediately, or was fanned to life by the next charge being rammed down.

I shoot in the N-SSA now and have seen a few cookoffs immediately after powder was poured down the barrel. I have never seen a cookoff during ramming,The hammer is left down on the nipple,during reloading and perhaps that prevents any embers being fanned.

I have never read of a musket cooking off because of sparks generated by a ramrod. The steel ramrod was the issue rammer for more than a hundred years. I think if steel ramrods were causing sparks, they would has discontinued using them.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I suspect that ignition was caused by two match heads rubbing together. These compounds are intended to ignite with light friction. Hence, friction matches. Your friend made his big mistake thinking he could " ram " home any charge. I don't think you are going to get sparks from rubbing a cold roll steel bolt against a cold roll steel pipe.

To test this, just try to get a spart off a pipe or bolt using a piece of flint. You can cut metal, but you won't get sparks. Its not hard enough.

I too fooled around with home made cannons when we were kids. We used a mix of firecracker powder, and the unignited powder in .30-06 blank cartridges that were ejected onto the street by the color guards on parade days when the blacks did not fire. My brother and I would walk the parade route following these units, and watch to se what guns did not fire. Then we would watch to see where the cartridge landed when it was ejected, and would swoop down and pick it up before some other kids got it. We let them have the fired brass casings.

Luckily, when my father found out about our interest, he bought a can of black powder and we used that, in a much better made cannon, to make noise. It wasn't quite the excitement, but it was safer, and made much more noise.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Paul,
I'm glad your dad got you the right stuff to play with! Most wouldn't have, and you may have continued to play with the bad stuff.

Have any of you ever read Patrick McManus's story POOF! NO EYEBROWS? I did nearly choked laughing while trying to read it. If you ever come across that issue of OUTDOOR LIFE don't let it get out of your hands. It was from the spring of 1982.
volatpluvia

 

[khwils]

You guys are probably right, it probably was the match heads rubbing together. They weren't strike anywhere matches, they were standard "book" matches. i remember thinking just before it went off "why is he packing it and why is he packing it so hard". I never did pack them as I knew they were going to ignite, after all we had cannon fuse going in there and they are match heads! One of those moments in retrospect where I should of said something. Kurt/IL