Stock design and uncomfortable recoil

[Boer]

I see threads on this board where people complain that they are hurt on the cheek by the recoil of their TC rifles. The solution suggested is to remove wood from the comb of the stock, to increase the distance between cheek and comb. Some attribute the whole problem to the rifle not having enough drop in the first place (I get the impression they refer to drop at comb and heel.)

I find this very interesting. I have wide experience with modern rifles and shotguns old and new, but not with muzzle loading rifles like those discussed on this site, which typically have quite crooked stocks and crescent shaped but plates. In my experience, the straighter the stock, the more a rifle will recoil directly to the rear, the less it will tend to rise and give you a painful jolt on the cheek bone. I do not mind heavy recoil to the shoulder but have painful memories regarding a certain shotgun with a lot of drop that literally loosened my teeth and gave me double vision with heavy loads.

I have noted on this board that Huntin Dawg indicated that he shoots a Lyman GPR with standard and 1:32 barrels. He also shoots a Lyman Deerstalker and a Lyman trade rifle. He also complained about the recoil of the Trade rifle to his cheek when shooting heavy conicals. I considered asking him this question in a private thread but I am sure others might also have insights to share.

Now being in the position that I want to buy myself a .54 muzzle loading rifle and that I want to shoot patched balls and heavy conicals, I would appreciate some advice from you.

How does the subjective felt recoil of the above-mentioned rifles compare? Is that of the Deerstalker with its apparent straighter stock less objectionable than that of say the Plains rifle? How does the GPR shooting similar loads compare with its greater drop and crescent shaped but stock? Comparing the Deerstalker with the Plains rifle, do the one handle or sight better than the other due to the difference in stock design? Any other pros and cons?

As a matter of interest is it possible to go the other way, have a lot of drop at heel but still have a comfortable rifle because the drop at comb is increased as well, or is this design only manageable with relatively light recoiling loads like patched balls of relatively small weight?
Any help appreciated.

 

[2172]

Boer, part of it is how the rifle is shouldered..I put a hooked butt against my arm, at the point where it joins the shoulder...my Lyman Deerstalker I mount as i would a modern cartridge rifle...I'm not bothered by recoil in my Lyman GPR (hooked butt) or my Lyman Deerstalker...I started doing this when I put a severely hooked butt on a re-worked CVA Mtn rifle..it was a really old butt plate...someone said early Ohio style, possible 1800...it dug into my shoulder so much I was forced to change...
I should add that I don't shoot heavy loads..my target load in the .50 is 60 gr of FFFG, and 50 gr in my .45 ..again, FFFG...
Hank

 

[Bearbait2]

Mr. Boer,
We find the recoil of our Lyman Trade Rifle (.54cal) to be quite comfortable. We use the REAL slugs and 100grs of 2F. We pull the rifle firmly into the shoulder when firing. Works for us.
Best Wishes.

 

[jethro224]

I shoot 80gr FFFg with a patched ball in my .54 GPR and it don't hurt a bit. I love that rifle!

I also have a Springfield Hawken in .54 that has a much straighter stock. I really have to scrunch my face into it to get a sight picture. It slaps my cheekbone HARD.

BP guns recoil much differently than smokeless guns. Modern guns also tend to have your face higher above the stock to line your eye up with a scope. I'm guessin' that's the difference.

My $.02

 

[roundball]

I see threads on this board where people complain that they are hurt on the cheek by the recoil of their TC rifles.

In my experience, the straighter the stock, the more a rifle will recoil directly to the rear, the less it will tend to rise and give you a painful jolt on the cheek bone.

Thank you :hatsoff:
I have a houseful of TC Hawkens with .45/.50/.54/.58/.62 caliber barrels on them and am not known for using powder-puff loads...max or near max for all my hunting loads...never had a recoil problem with any of them.
:thumbsup:

 

[11th corps]

What are you using your rifle for? If you are hunting, I guess you can justify using near max. loads. If not, lower your powder useage. If I were a hunter, I would invest a little money in a chronograph and check loads for velocity. You may be taking a lot of punishment for very little gain in velocity.

 

[mikelange]

There are a few points that don't seem to be very often addressed when we discuss the issue of stock design (specifically, drop at comb and heel) in relation to felt recoil. I speak from the standpoint of a lifelong shooter, a builder of muzzleloaders (several dozen to my dubious credit -- I've never kept count), and a modifier of several other people's stocks to ease the felt recoil of their guns.

In general, you're right about stock design -- the straighter-back the comb runs, the less it will tend to slant up and bite as it comes back. HOWEVER -- this does not hold true in the case of guns that force the shooter to actually snug his cheekbone over the comb, instead of alongside it. I can't name any specific types, here, because the shape of the individual shooter's face has as much to do with how his stock fits, as the design of the stock itself.

Generally speaking, a stock that is well-designed for its owner will allow him to shoulder it without having to mash his cheek into the comb, and in the process of recoil will move along his face, instead of into it. This is a hard topic to discuss in the sense of this, that, or the other type of rifle being suited to you. With a little luck you'll find a factory job that you like and, just as importantly, likes you. With a little more luck you'll be able to shoot a few of the guns you're interested in, and perhaps find one that works well for you. Short of that (and short of investing in a custom gun, built by someone who knows stock geometry), shoulder any gun you're interested in buying. Close your eyes as you do so, and bring it up in a natural, comfortable manner, then open your eyes. If the sights are at least close to being in alignment with your shooting eye, that's a good thing. Try to get a feel for whether or not the gun is going to slant into your face as it comes back. If it seems that it will, that's probably not a good thing. But, without actually shooting the gun or knowing from prior experience what works for you, you're kind of guessing. Good luck!

I'd also recommend starting with light loads and working up to your desired maximum. Oftentimes the perception of recoil is a matter of being acclimated to it -- or not. Building up to the big push is a better idea than letting it catch you utterly by surprise.

 

:applause: Well done all of you! However no one thought about cast off in the stock. thus easing the Cheek piece from the face so you dont have to scrunch. and the recoil slides on by. Thy it. bob

 

[Slamfire]

No thanks, Bob, I'm a southpaw! Now a little cast on don't hurt me a bit. :winking: