Stock Wood Quality

[buzp]

I just ordered a southern mountain rifle from TVM. I ordered it with the standard maple stock as I guess that these rifles would be made with whatever stock material was available to the maker and better quality wood would be used for more fancy rifles. But I have been wondering, what is the difference between the various grades of stocks? Are the designations, such as standard, p+, p++, etc. established by the gun makers or is this something done by the mills that supply the wood? Also, what are your thoughts on the stock for this rifle, should I stay with standard grade maple or should I spend a bit more for a higher grade stock? This rifle will be used for deer hunting and informal shooting matches with friends. I would like something fairly accurate to the early 1800's that would be used by the average hunter.

Thanks for your help.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Talk to Matt, or call any of the stock suppliers who make pre-carved stocks about the rating system. Dunlap, and Dick Greensides at Pecatonica River, can both give you an answer about the grading system. If you check websites, they often have information on how the grading system works.

The lowest grade wood has straight grain, no burls, no fiddleback. Its just a plain, straight grain stock. Above that level, they are graded given based on what kind of grain pattern is found, and whether their is fiddleback, and how much over the entire stock.

Unless you actually can visit and see the various grades of wood, I doubt that any amount of words will instruct you well enough.

I have visited many suppliers at Friendship over the years, learning about how wood is graded. I have been up to Pecatonica River and visited the show room to look for wood several times. And, I attended a very good seminar on gunstock wood given by Dunlap at Dixon's Gunmaker's Fair, where I learned even more how the wood is graded.

Most of the grading is done by the wood suppliers, but not the mills that cut the trees, I believe. The mills have a grading system that deals with the presence or absence of knots, but I don't believe they wet a blank to check for fiddleback, for instance. The stock makers do their own inspections when they buy the wood. Some suppliers prefer to cut the wood themselves.

Most mills cut up hardwoods for Veneer, because they make more profit per board foot of lumber. They also don't usually cut logs up in Quartersaw blanks, as there is no use for such lumber outside the gunstock industry( or not much at least.) :thumbsup:

 

[texcl]

For a southern rifle with a dark finish I personally think plain maple, cherry or walnut is the way to go. For earlier eastern designs you almost have to have good figure to be correct. As for durability as long as its good hard maple it won't matter.

 

[Stumpkiller]

It will also matter of how consistant a grain pattern the blank is. A stock with 75% tight curl is worth a LOT less than one with 100% tight curl throughout. Makes no nevermid to how it shoots.

When thinking about cherry as a stock material I noted that the makers of wood block planes and levels used cherry because it is warp resistant and stable in changeable weather and humidity.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Many sponge soft but figured stocks can find their way as "upgrades" on the uncarved stocks of some vendors guns. Extra money for the maker who bought it "right" and no complaints from the customer who has no knowledge of wood quality and is only concerned with "pretty" wood.

 

[mazo kid]

I would talk to the stock supplier and see what is available and how he grades the blanks. I may be wrong, but I do not believe there is a "standard" where every maker has the same system for judging the amount of figure in a blank. I would opt for the best grain I could afford. If just for hunting or range work, fancy wood won't make the rifle shoot more accurately, IMHO. But they sure look good!

 

[billd]

Just be careful the standard grade is not a soft grade. Nothing wrong with plain wood, as long as it is structurally sound. Hard wood is a little heavier but also more dent and scratch resistant.

Bill

 

[Dave K]

Besides the figure in the wood another very important thing to look for is the way the grain runs. You don't want the grain to "run out" in the wrist, which is the weakest part of the stock. In a perfect world, you want the grain to follow the curve of the wrist. Not only does that make this weak part stronger, but if you continue to follow this grain, it will probably also be parallel to the toe of the butt area. This is another weak spot, that breaks easily if the grain is not correct. I have seen highly graded stocks, that graded high because of the figure, but they would "fail" as far as strength, because of the grain.

 

[bowkill]

AAAAHHHHH spend a little money and go for the higher grade wood, you will be alot happier when sitting in the woods waiting for something to walk by..just my 2cents , but what do i know.. :idunno:

 

[smoothy]

Curly maple was used on some plain rifles. In some ways curly maple looks better on a plain rifle since there is nothing to take away from the beauty of the wood and it isn't hidden as much from a patchbox, etc. Go for it, its a show stopper when showing off your gun to a pilgrim.

 

[75dixie]

I feel if you want a good chunk of wood, its best to go with a high end blank supplier such as dunlaps etc and then have it shaped for you. I have seen alot of precarves that were not fit for a gun. Just my .2

 

[nkbj]

Well, I'm of the school of thought that good is good and pretty is pretty, preferring straight grained maple or walnut to others I've seen thus far. I was subjected to rather sly interrogation on the drive back from Thanksgiving in Indiana...a long box may be appearing beneath the tree.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Paul, there is still a large demand for quarter sawn wood in the custom furniture business.But the supply is shrinking simply due to the smaller trees being cut as virgin timber is getting scarcer than virgin teen agers! :rotf: :rotf:

 

[paulvallandigham]

The furniture folks have long been buying wood from Eastern Europe, so much of that pressure on domestic supplies has lessened.

The Gunstock industry has also reduced its demand, with all the plastic stocks being put on new sporting guns, and on military firearms.

Finally, we have laminated stocks of questionable wood infused with polymers, that have also reduced the demand for quality gunstock wood. I don't think the picture is as gloomy as you paint it.

The problem now seems to be that large mills are no longer interested in buying and cutting such wood, and the work is falling to the smaller mills, and to small cutting operators. Someone getting hurt on the job, or retiring, now has a greater impact on supply than other market factors do. :thumbsup:

 

[hanshi]

I have TVM's SMR. I got plain maple, straight barrel and iron furniture. It's my understanding this is pretty much characteristic of the originals; a plain gun, made from materials at hand. This does not eliminate nicer wood. If such wood was on hand, absolutely the builder would use it. Unlike the Pennsylvania rifles, These rifles were more likely to be mlain working guns.

 

[Dphar]

I have TVM's SMR. I got plain maple, straight barrel and iron furniture. It's my understanding this is pretty much characteristic of the originals; a plain gun, made from materials at hand. This does not eliminate nicer wood. If such wood was on hand, absolutely the builder would use it. Unlike the Pennsylvania rifles, These rifles were more likely to be mlain working guns.

There are some pretty nice PA guns, in fact very expensive, with all the carving etc that are very well used. Obviously used for generations. There is documentation, for example that Simon Kenton ordered a double barreled rifle from PA to be shipped to him in KY. These were never cheap (twice+- what a high end long rifle cost) and those surviving from the era are not "plain" and one, the Antes show a lot of wear. Wrist carving worn away etc. And this rifle is early, its engraved and extensively carved.
I think the "they didn't use the fancy guns" is a modern myth.
I would also cite "The Thomas Rifle" #121 in "Rifles of Colonial America" Vol II. It was a Rev-War battlefield capture in Newberry county SC. Probably wrecked at the time, the English were not fond of rifles on the battlefield or Thomas wrecked it before capture. It was taken to England as a trophy and later repaired and relocked there. It is fully carved, has wire inlay and is engraved.
People bought things that matched their station in life. A person was judged by how he dressed and the things he owned. So a person owned the best things he could afford. The relief carved and engraved rifle was no less durable than a rifle by the same maker that was plain. Thinking the hunters and Scouts were poor is another mistake. Market hunting was good money. Otherwise Boone would not have long hunted in KY. And it likely paid in CASH. Like the Mtn men of later years these guys were in it for the money and the ones that survived and had sense enough to not blow their earnings did well.
Apparently Boone and others thought is paid better than farming. But not everyone could go to 1765 KY and survive the trip.

The "mtn" rifle is much later than the PA and VA and even SC Kentucky. Being a contemporary of the late golden age guns and the Plains rifle. This is obvious by the locks used. By this time carving was being phased out and many thought it to be old fashioned and vulgar. Happened in furniture as well.
They are a regional style all their own and there are iron mounted "Mtn" rifles that show minimal wear as well.

Dan

 

[Vaino]

I'm kinda changing my mind in using very curly maple...have seen some very well made, decorated LRs out of the plainer grades of maple which don't distract from the LR itself. Fairly good grain direction in the wrist { most stocks aren't ideal in this respect} and sufficient hardness are mainly important to me. Perhaps on a plain MLer a very curly stock would be nice seeing the architecture and curl would be the "highlights". Another point is the cost...very curly maple is a lot more expensive seeing the suppliers grade by the amount of curl and curl pattern. My next Bucks County will be made from a slightly angled quarter sawn blank which doesn't have a whole lot of curl but I was mainly interested in the wrist grain direction, hardness and sufficient length for a 46" bbl. Bought the blank from Tiger Hunt at a very reasonable price because it's not that curly......Fred