Suggestions Please..

[Hoyt]

I'm going to attempt a first time flintlock build (don't want to wait a yr or so for one to be built) using TOW, TVM, type kit..but I can't find a kit with the parts I would like for the gun I want...a spring gobbler smoothbore. I would like to go with TOW, but their fowlers, trade guns and fusils are not inletted for Chambers lock. Any help would be appreciated.

Lightweight less than 8lbs.
smoothbore...20ga. to 12ga.?
Chambers lock
Barrel octagon to round 36"
95% at least inletting
front and rear sights

 

why not get a fowler kit from jim chambers?
his kits are a little lower the TOW and you will get the lock you want?
http://www.flintlocks.com/

 

[Hoyt]

I looked long and hard at the Chambers kits..but he won't cut the barrels down because the stocks are inletted for them and all his fowlers have 46" barrels but one and it's 41" but full round which I don't like.
Narragansett comes closest to what I'm looking for but they don't offer kits.
I did e-mail Narragansett about their guns and mentioned kits...Terry said to call them and they would work with me. The only reason I haven't is I'm new to flintlocks and am trying to learn enough on these forums to be able to have a serious live conversation with someone..without jumping the gun and having something built or sent to me I end up wishing I hadn't.
Thanks for all the info I can get.

 

[tg]

You might ask TOW if their fowler stock could be made to accept a Chambers colonial lock, it is not uncommon to re-inlet for different locks if the panels and other factors allow it. I have alterd a Siler inlet to take a Queen Anne, BTW I have two Queen Annes and they are reliable/fast locks
while Chambers is a favorite others will serve very well if properly tuned.

 

[TwoShadows]

1-615-654-4445 between 7 am and 4 pm your time zone. Tell him what u want and see what he has or can do....no charge for asking.

 

[54JNoll]

TOW sells a Colerain Turkey Choked Smooth Bore Barrel. They will be able to tell you what the outside dimension of that barrel will fit into as far as the stocks they sell. It is not hard to inlet a lock, besides even if you get the lock they "inlet for" you will still have to do the final inlettting to fit i=the lock. Chambers, and TOW and other "kits" of this grade are not drop in fits. You will have to final fit every part.

 

[Hoyt]

I sent TOW a note..email..last wk. asking if the Chambers Lock would work with any of their fowlers. The reason I want to go with Chambers Lock is because I hear so many good things about them and since this flintlock is for hunting only and is going to be custom, it just makes sense to me to get the best sparking lock I know of.
I thought about the turkey choked barrel..it comes as option with the Tulle fusil-de-chasse kit..44"long barrel. It's .620 choked down to .580. They can be a pain to load..but it may be worth the effort. I still haven't made up my mind as far as which bore, barrel, etc. for best patterns..at what range..etc. I want this gun to be PC as far as what may have been used during the period it would have been used in. However..I still want to come up with a gun that will give me the best patterns at as close to 35yds as I can get. That will be pushing it with .620.
Thanks for the phone no. and I will give a call just as soon as I reach that point.

 

[54JNoll]

If you are looking for something truely Period Correct to hunt turkey then the turkey choked barrel is not it.

You can do a lot as far as tightening your patterns by making paper shot cups. 2, 3 or 4 cuts at various depths make a big difference on pattern density when using a straight smoothie. Now you can use it for small game, uplan birds, turkey, ducks, and deer with ball. Truely versitile and truely Period Correct. However if you simply want period styling in a dedicated turkey gun the tureky barrel would still be the way to go.

 

[Hoyt]

Just got answer from TOW about Chambers Locks and their fowlers...was told the Chambers Lock is just too big for the 20ga fowler's barrel..it's a 1" octagon to round at the breech and Chambers Locks are for 1-1/8" octagon at breech.
Said some people insist on re-inletting for the Chambers on the 20ga..but it just looks too big.
Far as period correctness...I just want to feel like I'm hunting with the same gun someone would have been using back when it would have been built.
However..I still want to make it shoot the best patterns it's capable of...getting tight patterns out to about 30yds.+ is most important too me...could be jug choke is the way to go. Going with 20ga. is the biggest sacrifice I'm dealing with. I feel like the .62cal. 20ga. would have been the most prevalent smoothbore around during those times, and if I get a 16, 12 or 11ga. now I will only end up having to go to the .62 next..so why not just go straight to it now.
The only reason I don't like the turkey barrel is it's a pain to get wads down the barrel...and you can't shoot anything but shot in them...no round balls.
I'm kinda at a loss right now about which gun..due to the fact that it will be my first build if I go that way and wanted TOW to do all the gunsmithing stuff it[url] offers..lugs[/url], sights, etc.

 

[Donny]

Why did they say the Chambers lock was just too big?? :hmm: I have a Chambers round face on a 1" oct. to round bbl. It looks fine. They can't say there were not guns like that, ever, and would not believe everything they say as gospel..I would not use an L & R flintlock, a percussion, if that was all they have. Perhaps ::they say that because L&R locks are always on stock, Chambers locks can sometimes be hard to find. Don

 

[Hoyt]

This is from my email..

"Our 20 gauge tapered octagon-to-round barrel is 1" octagon at the breech end. The L&R #2000 Queen Anne round face flint lock is a perfect match for this barrel, the sear is correctly located, and pan height is perfect.
The Chambers' round face flint locks are quite a bit larger, made for tapered or swamped barrels with 1-1/8" octagon breech. They are so much larger that they almost hang over our fowling gun stock's lock panels. A few of our customers have insisted on re-inletting this larger lock on
our kit, and it can be done, but the lock looks too big for the barrel and side panel."

That's enough to discourage me..since it will be my first attempt at putting a kit together I want it to go as smooth as possible.
Looks like if I use TOW kits and build any of their smoothbores..a Chambers Lock will not work.
Right now I'm contemplating their French TULLE Fusil de Chasse with the 16ga. 44in. Colerain (6 or 8"longer that I want)barrel..with French Tulle Fusil-de-Chasse lock, by R. E. Davis..from what I've read I think this is supposed to be a good lock.
If I thought I could inlet a lock it would open up many options for me. I just can't find a kit anywhere that includes all the options I would like in a fowler and would be much easier if I just bought the parts I wanted and put them together.

 

[Zonie]

I'm not sure which Chambers lock folks are talking about, but I can see where TOW is coming from.
After comparing the full size photos in their catalog I get the following dimensions:

L&R Queen Ann 1750 London style Length= 5.685, height from a line tangent to the bottom, to the pan= .975, distance from center of pan to sear arm= 2.900

Chambers English Fowler/Virginia Fowler style Length= 5.950, height from a line tangent to the bottom, to the pan= 1.00, distance from center of pan to sear arm= 3.120

Chambers Deluxe Siler lock Length= 5.370, height from a line tangent to the bottom, to the pan= .940, distance from center of pan to sear arm= 2.985

The height from a line tangent to the bottom, to the pan is the dimension from the face of the pan (where the frizzen rests) to a line which was drawn tangent to the front lockplate radius and to the rear lockplate radius.
This was done because the bottom of the lockplates are concave (bananna shaped).

I measured the three locks because the original post just said Chambers Lock. Was this refering to the Chambers Siler lock (which is smaller than the Queen Anne), or to the Chambers Virginia lock?
I ask because a lot of us build with the Siler locks, so that's what we think of when we talk about lock sizes.

These dimensions are probably close to the real locks but don't quote me. I mean, how close can someone measure a picture?

By the way for :m2c: I have had very good success with all of the L&R flintlocks I've built with.

 

[tg]

The main issue is the size of the lock panel, the barrel size is not of much concern, I was going to use the Chambers Colonial lock on my Early Lancaster but it would not fit the lock panel so I went with the L&R Queen Ann..which has been very reliable and fast.The TOW French Tulle would be a good choice, the lock does need some cosmetic work to be PC if that is of importance.

 

[Hoyt]

I wanted to use either the Chambers Colonial Virgina or Round Faced English lock..they are interchangeable, but a tad to big for the TOW stock.
Like I said before I know absolutely nothing about flintlocks...I've never even shot one. All I know is what I have read on the net. I don't want anyone getting the impression that I'm running down one lock or the other..I don't know enough to do so.
I just read so much about how good the Chambers locks are and how good they spark and how fast..etc. so if I'm going to buy or put together a gun I can't afford to start with and it's only purpose is going to be to hunt in humid climate of fl. I decided the main thing is that it go off when the rare opportunity arises (public land hunting)..therefore, I should build the gun around the supposedly best most reliable lock..especially since lock prices are all fairly close.
I also am going need a deer and hog flintlock (decided to do all my hunting with flintlocks) and have at this point decided on the TOW kit.. Lancaster Isaac Haines 54cal. 38" C weight. It has all the options I want including Chambers Lock...I just wanted to get the fowler first.

 

[LSU TIGER]

If you have the printed TOW catalog, the photos are full size. A call to TOW is pretty cheap, so ask if the lock panel section of the stocks are full size. If they are, a copier is all you need. If they aren't, they may copy one for you and mail it. Just a thought. :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

The Chambers Early Ketland may be small enough (5 3/4" x 1") to fit a TOW fowler lock panel, and is correct for the 1760=1780 period. Chambers locks are great, but others can be very good if properly assembled and tuned, as you have seen most suppliers will try to steer you in their direction when you mention changes...

 

[Hoyt]

Thanks for all the help men..but as I'm sure y'all can tell by now I don't really have a clue. After reading a post on another forum I'm thinking about taking another route. If I can figure out how to do it. This is the gun I would like to have http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Iflytrout/Gift1.jpg Early Virgina 38" 20ga. Colerain choked down to 28ga. On the other site it was recommended as one way to build first gun..first decide which style of gun you would like to build. Purchase a stock blank from Dunlap, purchase a
barrel, then have Fred Miller or Jack's Mtn. Stocks inlet the barrel and pre-shape the butt portion.
Part of what I'm confused about this is..will Miller or Jack's or anybody shape the blank stock into the specific rifle stock I want..and will they inlet for a specific lock?

 

[Birddog6]

All I can say is if you order a kit from TOW, be SURE they have it all of you may be 6 mo getting all of the parts. They seem to be having a real problem with supplying parts lately & the last kit I received from them what parts they did send were wrong.... If they don't have it ALL in stock, call Tip Curtis Frontier Shop, Wayne Dunlap, or Jim Chambers for a complete kit.

 

[rootnuke]

I had the sales person at TOW check stock availability on each part I needed by hand on the phone. The only thing he did not have was the Siler Large lock. I told them to take the lock off the deal and I would find it elsewhere. I found the Siler lock I needed at http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com out of Arkansas. It took MBS 10 days to ship but that was exactly what they said the wait would be. They have a 200+ page color catalog that is worth a look also.

 

[Birddog6]

On the rifle I am building for a guy right now, we waited for parts from TOW for 3 mo. for a barrel & a lock & I had to go find it for him. Also they sent the wrong Stock, RR pipes, Entrypipe, and Triggerguard. The did send the correct buttplate, sideplate & nosecap..... :thumbsup: So we can't say it was a total screwup ......