Swamped barrels...common?

[brazosland]

From 1760 to 1800 how common were swamped barrels?

Was an upgrade one paid for?

Was it just how some makers built their guns? But not all?

Seems that after 1800 it becomes much less common. Perhaps because of horses and shorter barrels.

But how common was it during the age of the long rifle?

 

[Artificer]

From 1760 to 1800 how common were swamped barrels?

Was an upgrade one paid for?

Was it just how some makers built their guns? But not all?

Seems that after 1800 it becomes much less common. Perhaps because of horses and shorter barrels.

But how common was it during the age of the long rifle?

There were varying amounts of tapering from the breech forward until it flared going towards the muzzle from 1760 to 1800, but almost every barrel was swamped to some degree or perhaps less likely, tapered from the breech going forward. Straight barrels were FAR out of the norm and in fact, downright uncommon to rare - from everything I've ever read.

Gus

 

[tenngun]

After cr 1800 many gun barrel came in as blanks from England. After1840 almost all barrels were straight
All my rifle gun barrels are straight cause 1) swamped was hard to find for much of my ml time. And 2) I’m scared to try to inlet one.

 

[brazosland]

Didnt know about the importation of barrels.

#2 almost made coffee blow out my nose. Damn funny.

 

[BullRunBear]

In the "Gunsmith of Williamsburg" DVD Wallace Gusler builds a long rifle from scratch as it would have been done circa 1770. He mentions the flared barrel he forged was typical for the period. (Don't think he used the term swamped.)

By the way, the DVD is excellent even though originally made in the 1960s. David Brinkley did the narration in that great cadence of his. The whole version is available on YouTube and is worth the hour to watch.

Jeff

 

[SDSmlf]

After cr 1800 many gun barrel came in as blanks from England. After1840 almost all barrels were straight
All my rifle gun barrels are straight cause 1) swamped was hard to find for much of my ml time. And 2) I’m scared to try to inlet one.

Interesting. @Herb has stated that he handled a number of original Hawken rifles that where tapered, some ever so slight. Seems many of their guns were post 1840, an anomaly? Here is one of Herb’s posts.

Dutch, you are correct to say Hawken barrels with SLIGHT tapering. I have measured some originals. Here are the results: Jim Bridger Hawken, barrel 33 1/4" long ahead of snail. Measured 1.175 ahead of snail and 1.125 at the muzzle. That is the thickness of a dime, half of that taper per side. Green River Rifle Works had that rifle from November 1975 for about three years. I handled it there in 1978, we took the lock out in a class I took there. Carl Walker, their gunsmith, said the barrel was not tapered, "you can make that much difference with a file". My avatar at left is me holding the Jim Bridger Hawken in the museum in Helena. MT.

Kit Carson Hawken: barrel is 31 1/16" long ahead of snail and 1.125 ACF (across the flats) there and 1.022 at the muzzle, according to others who have described it. I have not personally measured this one. That difference is .103, or about a dime's thickness taper per side.

I measured a S. Hawken rifle in a museum in Cheyenne, WY but can't find my measurements. The barrel was 35 1/2" long ahead of the snail (AOTS). I don't remember a taper. Then I went to Lincoln, NE and measured the S. Hawken rifle in the state museum there that Robidoux made mechanical drawings of. That barrel was 32 1/8" long AOTS and measured 1.125 there and 1.090 at the muzzle. That .035 is half a nickle thickness total, or 1/4 (.0175) a nickle thickness taper per side.

Last December I went to the Cody Firearms Museum and measured some originals. Liver Eating Johnson's Hawken barrel was 31 3/4" AOTS, 1.300" ATF there and 1.218 at the muzzle, or about a dime's thickness taper per side.

The Pistol Grip Hawken there had a barrel 32 9/16" ahead of the snail, 1.145" ATF there and 1.155 ATF at the muzzle, yes, slightly larger. Only a matter of filing. I have an Oregon Rifle Barrel Company .54 barrel with a 1-48" twist (1 1/8" like the original, recently made for me) I am building into a copy of the Bridger Hawken, and that barrel varies from 1.120 to 1.140 midway to 1.130 at the muzzle. Just a matter of filing it true, if one wants to take the time).

The S. Hawken with a patchbox at Cody has a barrel 31 13/16 AOTS, 1.00" there and 1.00 at the muzzle.

The W.S. Hawken (Denver CT, with the C stamped backwards) had a barrel 32 1/4" long AOTS, 1.130 there and 1.010 at the muzzle. That is about a quarter dollar's thickness per side.

 

[4575wcf]

Well I now own a forge and a sizeable anvil. I have never done much blacksmithing, but I have been a machinist and a metalworker my whole career. Semi retired, and maybe now I can scrounge up a little time to heat and beat. Under the hammer with a couple of skelps the barrel welding process it would have mattered little whether the end result was swamped or straight, the same amount of work was required regardless. A good eye was required to keep the taper running constant and uniform for sure, but making it absolutely straight would have been no easier. From a machining standpoint, finishing an existing straight barrel to a swamped profile would require a lot of extra time, attention to detail, and changing in the set up. Whenever the change from hand forged to machined barrels took place, the swamping probably became impractical.

 

[tenngun]

Interesting. @Herb has stated that he handled a number of original Hawken rifles that where tapered, some ever so slight. Seems many of their guns were post 1840, an anomaly? Here is one of Herb’s posts.

Almost all, yes Hawkens and some others had tapers, swamped almost disappeared but never compleatly

 

[Artificer]

John Hall of Hall's rifle works, invented a metal working machine (amoung many other machines) he called a "Slabber" in the early 1820's. Though it was not described in detail and from the almost miniscule description, I think it may have been a vertical mill. Even a fairly primitive machine like this could make both tapered and straight barrels more easily than swamped barrels.

"In a letter to Secretary of War John Calhoun on December 20, 1822, Hall described his recent accomplishments at Harpers Ferry:

I have succeeded in an object which has hitherto completely baffled (notwithstanding the impressions to the contrary which have long prevailed) all the endeavors of those who have heretofore attempted it – I have succeeded in establishing methods for fabricating arms exactly alike, & with economy, by the hands of common workmen, & in such manner as to ensure a perfect observance of any established model, & to furnish in the arms themselves a complete test of their conformity to it.

During his two decades at Harpers Ferry, Hall developed and constructed drop-hammers, stock-making machines, balanced pulleys, drilling machines, and special machines for straight-cutting, lever-cutting, and curve-cutting. Hall's straight-cutting machine was the forerunner of today's versatile milling machine, and a critical tool used in the fabrication of precision metal firearm components.

Hall's success at Harpers Ferry was attested to by Colonel George Talcott of the Ordnance Department, who wrote in 1832 that Hall's "manufactory has been carried to a greater degree of perfection, as regards the quality of work and uniformity of parts than is to be found anywhere – almost everything is performed by machinery, leaving very little dependent on manual labor."

From 1820-1840, John H. Hall devoted his uncompromising attention to the "uniformity principle" of interchangeable manufacture, laying a solid foundation for America's developing factory system right here at Harpers Ferry."

Gus

 

[4575wcf]

The slab milling cutter is still with us today, named for what it did--produce a slab, a surface the same height all along the travel of the bed of the machine. Cutters were run horizontally and the work was fed under them to produce a uniform distance between cutter and table which was screw adjustable by some means. Basically it is the metal working equivalent of the portable planer you see at Home Depot today. Metal works at a much lesser speed than wood, and the planer indexes from the top down, but you get the idea. The cutter spun in a way that was producing lift on the work, otherwise the cutter would tend to climb the part, pull up the gear lash, and crash it. A barrel for instance, supported by dead centers on each end of the bore, could be indexed to the eight octagon sides, supported in the middle with a series of screw jack supports and fed longitudinally under the cutter, then the next flat indexed up, the process repeated for each of the eight sides. Then the table was a raised a fraction and the whole process repeated until the final dimension was arrived at. A tapered barrel required no more than a set difference between the height of the end center supports to cut a bit deeper on one end.

 

[billraby]

After cr 1800 many gun barrel came in as blanks from England. After1840 almost all barrels were straight
All my rifle gun barrels are straight cause 1) swamped was hard to find for much of my ml time. And 2) I’m scared to try to inlet one.

I just started a new gun building video series. I am posting them on Patreon right now but I will be putting them on Rumble in a few months once all the 4 bore videos are on there. The new gun building video series is a Maryland rifle that will have a swamped barrel. It will show how easy they are to inlet. Inletting a swamped barrel is no more difficult than a straight one. There is only one additional step and it not a hard one.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

From 1760 to 1800 how common were swamped barrels?

Was an upgrade one paid for?

Was it just how some makers built their guns? But not all?

Seems that after 1800 it becomes much less common. Perhaps because of horses and shorter barrels.

But how common was it during the age of the long rifle?

So first, the answer is "Kinda"....,

The "swamping" on surviving rifles from what I've read, is much less pronounced than what you find provided by modern factories making swamped barrels for us muzzleloading enthusiasts.

It has been suggested that the taper on the original barrels was perhaps unintended. It's been noted that there is a natural tendency to taper a bar in the center when hand filing, and that the taper may have been an unintended product of the filing process when the flats were created on the barrel blank.

Some folks point to the fact that the practice of "swamping" apparently didn't continue into the beginning of the industrial age, for just as others have already pointed out, the barrels pretty quickly became straight, or in the case of some of the plains rifles, namely Hawkens, tapered to the muzzle. IF a swamped barrel was the desired norm, why stop? The machines could've made the barrels so, but the barrel makers just stopped.

Second, we really have very few surviving rifles from the 18th century, when one compares to the records of the number of rifled pieces imported and sold in the colonies, followed by the newborn United States. So cannot really say if it was a regional style or how prevalent it was. HENCE you the answer..."kinda"....

I like my swamped barreled rifle very much. I have found its handling characteristics superior to straight wall barreled rifles that I've carried in the past, or own today. Other's results may vary..

LD

 

[4575wcf]

In the "Gunsmith of Williamsburg" DVD Wallace Gusler builds a long rifle from scratch as it would have been done circa 1770. He mentions the flared barrel he forged was typical for the period. (Don't think he used the term swamped.)

By the way, the DVD is excellent even though originally made in the 1960s. David Brinkley did the narration in that great cadence of his. The whole version is available on YouTube and is worth the hour to watch.

Jeff

About this Wallace Gusler video--this is about as good as riflemaker's get. The fact that Gusler was able to completely master so many of the necessary skills to build a rifle by such primitive means at such a young age is astounding. Forge welding the frizzen, facing the iron frizzen with a steel plate, and coming up with a means to relieve the rifling hook on the return pass, and still index it into the cut accurately, the man is Genius. And to think he cleaned out his father's chicken coop, set up a shop and taught himself the whole process. Wow.

 

[rich pierce]

Virtually every octagonal barrel on rifles in Shumway’s Rifles of Colonial America is larger at the breech and muzzle than at the waist.

 

[LRB]

Didnt know about the importation of barrels.

#2 almost made coffee blow out my nose. Damn funny.

Most all gun parts were available as imports. Many of the locks were imported.

 

[Ironoxide]

Talking about swamped barrels I never saw a discussion of why it was done (other than for esthetic reasons and perhaps making the whole gun muzzle heavy so it is easier to hold steady on target).

Personally I have a theory it was also done in addition to above reasons as a sort of insurance against bulging at the muzzle because of a bore obstruction or forgetting to push the ball down.

 

[brazosland]

As a shooter and not a builder, it seems obvious to me it was done for handling and shootability.

A lighter gun is easier to carry, but preserving the weight at the muzzle makes the gun much easier to shoot well.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
The famous "Gunsmith at Colonial Williamsburg" shows the complete hand manufacture of an 18th century American rifle. However, making a complete gun in colonial America was not the normal process. It was probably more common when blockades and embargos made getting imported barrels and locks difficult but by and large imported components were cheaper and better made than those created in America until well into the 19th century. Gun makers that had access to imported materials used mostly English or German barrels and locks and most of those were swamped or tapered.

dave

 

[rich pierce]

Barrels were made thick at the breech for strength. Tapering the barrel saves weight and iron. Flaring at the muzzle brings the front sight to the right height. These are facts, but may not be the only reasons.

 

[4575wcf]

Out of everything I have read on the American manufacture of longrifles, Ned Roberts's The Muzzle-Loading Caplock Rifle" is still one of my most used references. Roberts made no claim to any knowledge of the flintlock, saying he came along too late to have any experience with it, but still he does a bang up job of covering the tools and methods employed to make them. I love his coverage of Horace Warner, who was a Wallace Gusler of an earlier era. Roberts said Warner hiked out into the woods with just an axe and a few hand tools, built his own house and shop, built all his own furniture, set up shop and went to making rifles. Now that, my friends, is gunsmithing.