"SWAMPED" BARRELS??? Intended or poor workmanship?

[Whitworth]

I should think a swamped flat would cut down on glare when sighting down the barrel. I would be interested in knowing the weight saving of a swamped barrel vs. non-swamped.

 

[oldwood]

I looked into Jim Webb's book of old gun parts , etc.. he took a random sample of guns from his collection , and measured each barrel profile , end to end , and posted the measurements. None resemble , the beautiful swamped profiles , seen on modern m/l rifle barrels. In many cases , each barrel is unique , no two totally the same. That stands to reason , as no two guns were the same barrel length , caliber , and swamped design. After looking at a lifetime of old m/l rifles, I can promise you , they were not products of poor workmanship.. Oddly , several are only swamped in the middle , with only the breech and muzzle thicker diameter than the middle of the barrel. Dunno.

 

[Redlemur60]

really,.....really?

 

[smoothshooter]

Last week in a thread about octagon to round barrel rifles one person said that it was totally unintentionally done because draw fiiling an true Octagon barrel was messed up and that's why we see swamped barrels

That person does not know what they are talking about.

 

[Colonial Boy]

I’ve swamped a few barrels over the years, both round and octagon, and no one ever did it by accident.

 

[Coinneach]

While Dave knows his barrels I think it only fair to add that Turkish rifled barrels where exellent & equal to the European makers .Nor do they vary much other than the tall rear sight arrangement and a tendency to swamp more heavily .And the beautiful figured' Damacus' barrels made long before Europeans could produce them I seem to recall Wm Rigby was the first to match them about 1818 or there abouts . They might have run around in Turbans & Baggy pants but they were no slouches in gun makeing .
Rudyard

You never mentioned their Turkish Delight.......

 

[FishDFly]

Correct answer post number 7, how far will it go?

 

[Nor'Easter]

I should think a swamped flat would cut down on glare when sighting down the barrel. I would be interested in knowing the weight saving of a swamped barrel vs. non-swamped.

Barrel Weight Calculator

You can figure swamped and octagon to rounds by calculating each section and adding them together.

Example:
Rice 'C' weight swamped 44" .54 cal. breech = 1.062", waist = .780", muzzle = .927"............ weight approx. 4.44 lbs
Straight octagon 1.062" ATF, 44" .54 cal.......... weight approx. 8.78 lbs
Straight round 1.062", 44", .54 cal............... weight approx. 8.18 lbs
Straight octagon 15/16", 42", .54 cal........... weight Approx. 5.94 lbs
.54 cal 28 gauge octagon to round barrel 42" long. Weight: 3 lbs, 4 oz. Breech measures 1", octagon at wedding band measures .780, muzzle measures .735. Griffin profile with flared tang.

It makes a significant difference, as well as how the weight is distributed as others have stated.

 

[M. De Land]

The swamped barrel is certainly not poor workmanship. The swamping was intentional. Making straight barrels from a flat skelp and forge welded is not a simple operation, in fact nearly impossible. The draw filing to smooth the weld and forging marks made may have increased the swamping effect or not, but the smith certainly wanted a smooth surfaced barrel.

Originally barrels were made from a flat skelp of soft iron that was forge welded around a mandrel. The welding started at about the middle of the barrel. As the soft iron was heated to welding temperature and forged around the barrel, the soft iron moved towards the breech or muzzle. As a result, the barrel was smaller in over diameter where the welding started and greater at the muzzle and breech. The smith used swaging blocks with several sizes of half octagon sections to accommodate the barrel as the size changed as the barrel was formed around the mandrel. The benefit of having more metal at the breech to contain the ignition pressures and a larger muzzle to raise the front sight were not lost on the gunsmith. Neither was the good handling characteristics of a swamped barrel lost to the smith.

Was swamping a barrel intentional? Yes, but it was also a function of the manufacturing process. That's one reason that the historical dimensions of the swamped barrels vary so much from gun builder to gun builder. Once the deep drilling process and large-scale mills that would produce straight sided barrels or tapered barrels, swamping of barrels from a barrel manufacturer faded away. There are very few swamped barrels made after about 1850.

I have my doubts about superior accuracy from swamped barrels as I have a very good friend who competes nationally at Friendship and has done very well there, tell me he rarely sees swamped barrels on the line or on the podeium at matches end.

 

[DixieTexian]

I’ve swamped a few barrels over the years, both round and octagon, and no one ever did it by accident.

I know a few duck hunters who have accidentally swamped a few barrels over the years.

 

[Rudyard]

You never mentioned their Turkish Delight.......

You never asked me ! I hitched though Turkey in 66 Some rough sorts didn't get any Turkish delights got more Turkish fright''s in Kurdistan region particularly . But still like there old barrels .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

I have my doubts about superior accuracy from swamped barrels as I have a very good friend who competes nationally at Friendship and has done very well there, tell me he rarely sees swamped barrels on the line or on the podeium at matches end.

Well its horses for courses the Line at F ship doesn't need swamped, the heavier strait Oct must be an advantage but no body carries them far . Then you get to the bench shooters No body would carry Them hunting .Not even the assassin's in tree stands .
Rudyard

 

[French Colonial]

Well its horses for courses the Line at F ship doesn't need swamped, the heavier strait Oct must be an advantage but no body carries them far . Then you get to the bench shooters No body would carry Them hunting .Not even the assassin's in tree stands .
Rudyard

Exactly, the guys who go sheep hunting in the Rockies don't lug around the same rifles used at Camp Perry.

The guys who hunt rugged terrain with a ML probably have never used it on the line at Friendship. Different tools for different purposes.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

You never mentioned their Turkish Delight.......

Should read Turkish DelightS

 

[Coinneach]

You never asked me ! I hitched though Turkey in 66 Some rough sorts didn't get any Turkish delights got more Turkish fright''s in Kurdistan region particularly . But still like there old barrels .
Regards Rudyard

In 1966 I was still in School, how the hell have you lasted so long ?

But in 2003 our blokes with the Brits were "touring" Kurdistan introducing Javelins to the Iraqi Armour annoying the Peshmerga at the time; it was the sunset of my Army career.
We found the Kurds to be good folk, their women are damn fierce warriors understandable considering their history.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

LOL, I have several with full Swamped barrels They are wonderful and make the rifles handle and point beautifully.

 

[SciAggie]

I recently acquired a jaeger with a swamped barrel. This is the first rifle I’ve ever owned with a swamped barrel. It is the best handling hunting rifle I’ve ever shouldered or carried. It’s accuracy is good enough for me - it makes a ragged hole at 50 yards. I wish I could go back and know at 25 years old what I know now...

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have my doubts about superior accuracy from swamped barrels as I have a very good friend who competes nationally at Friendship and has done very well there, tell me he rarely sees swamped barrels on the line or on the podeium at matches end.

Here in eastern Missouri at my traditional gun club, we have members who own and some who built rifles for the chunk gun, table matches, and plank matches common along the Mississippi River. All of them have straight barrels and heavy barrels. Apparently to reduce vibration. Since these rifles were built to make the smallest groups on targets, the straight barrel was the preferred choice.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

There will be no difference in accuracy in a decent Swamped barrel that I am aware of. Bench rest stuff that weighs 15lbs, using heavy straigh barrels soem with false muzzles etc,, are purpose made and not a realistic comparison . IMHO

 

[springfield art]

Not according to Davy Crocket /Ed

I know in reading about the guys who forge pure iron barrels on mandrels then rifle them on a 18th C. machine, the idea is to get dead harmonics, like you mentioned.