Swan shot

[Darkgael]

The thread about #5 and #7 shot led me to this post.(I tried a search but got nowhere). Has anyone patterned swan shot - mixed sizes, tail and all?
I dropped some the other day after reading the article about making shot that was in the Nov./Dec. Backwoodsman magazine. I have a bottom pour lead pot that has a leaky valve; I put a container of water under it and let it run for a while. Very slow and unpredictable but I have enough to play with. I'm just wondering if it's worth the trouble.
Pete

 

[Cruzatte]

I for one, would be interested in your findings. I've never done this myself, even though like you, I have a bottom pour lead furnace with a leaky valve, too.

Maybe we should both try it, compare results, and see what happens :hmm:

Cruzatte

 

[Stophel]

That stuff is NOT "swan shot". Swan shot is a regular round shot, though I don't recall the size.

I can't imagine the jagged stuff producing anything that could be called a pattern at any distance...I have a hard enough time with regualar shot! :grin:

 

[tg]

I think the size of Swan shot is about .024 maybe a little less, this tale of Swan shot having a tail just will not roll over and die... Tha stuff with a tail should probably be called drip shot it is not Swan shot no matter who has called it so in any publications.

 

[Darkgael]

Stoph: I stand corrected. I had it in my mind from somewhere that "swan shot" was the crude shot resulting from dropping molten lead into water.
I have, after your post, looked it up.
Large shot, approx. 1/8" dia., used for hunting fowl.
Now I have to track down where I saw the other.
Pete

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Some confusion results because there are references to "swan shot" AND "swan drops".

"Swan shot" is probably the same as "large goose shot" seen in some mid 18th cent. VA references. Named for it's size suitable for those game animals and not for it's tail appearance.

I think we can only approximate size. I believe TG is in the right area for that. I would lean a little larger than smaller.

Then there's swan drops. I have seen that term used in the book Firearms in Colonial America.

 

[Many Klatch]

I have a mold for swan shot. It is about the size of 00 buck, but it has a tail on it. In my Bess it is quite effective.

At 10 yards, 9 out of 10 are in the chest of a man sized target
At 25 yards, 5 out of 10 are in the chest
At 35 yards I rang 4 gongs that were hung close together, I don't know where the other 6 went.

Swan Shot hits the target like a buzz saw, all but one of the target hits went through sideways.

Many Klatch

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Many Klatch,
Do you have a date for that mold? Do you ahve any pictures?
thanks

 

[tg]

"I have a mold for swan shot. It is about the size of 00 buck, but it has a tail on it"

That is interesting, I assume it is modern mould, as historical swan shot DID NOT HAVE A TAIL, no flame intended just trying to put a finishing shot into this one...It just does not want to die for some reason, it is worse than the one where the height of the pile of Beaver pelts was equal to the value of a trade gun, basic thing to remember; if it has a tail it is not swan shot, or duck shot or pigeon shot.it is the size of the moulded round ball that determines whether it is swan shot or another type, Goose, Buck or a number of others the smaller ones being made in a shot tower or in the first half of the 18th century by the Rupert method.

 

[J.D.]

I have a mold for swan shot. It is about the size of 00 buck, but it has a tail on it. In my Bess it is quite effective.

I would love to see a photo of the mould and/or some shot.
J.D.

 

[Many Klatch]

Mike Lea makes the mold out of soapstone. He usually has one or two on hand.

I haven't figured out how to post pictures, but just imagine a classic waterdrop except that it is made of lead and the round part is the size of 00 Buckshot, then you know what swan shot looks like.

Many Klatch

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've read a period account of "buck and ball" being swan drops and a musket ball. Other sources gave me to believe swan drops (an European term) equates to our buckshot - 0.25" to 0.32" or thereabouts. In all cases it was round shot for all I could tell.

 

[Rod Lassey]

Swan shot--.28 caliber
Beaver shot--.21
Small buck--.35
Large buck--.38

Gleaned from the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly, and Gooding's Trade Guns of the Hudson's Bay Company.

The names referred to the animals that the shot was intended to be used on. The crude homemade shot dripped through a collander that sometimes has a tail is a frontier method of making Rupert's drops--named for it's inventor, Prince Rupert, son of the Winter Queen of Bohemia, cousin of King Charles II of England, and co-founder of the Hudson's Bay Company. Done properly, Rupert's drops have a characteristic dimple on each shot. They show up in archy digs on early fur trade sites. This was superceded by dropped shot, the stuff we use today.

Rod

 

[Darkgael]

Manny: Thanks for that note about your use of this shot, lets call them "swan drops" for now, though Rupert's Drops works too. What do you cast them from? Pure lead? Alloy?
Pete

 

[Many Klatch]

I cast them out of pure lead, I usually do them as I am casting ball for my various sized guns. So it comes right out of the pot with everything else.

One thing I found is that the soapstone mold does not need preheating, it throws perfect every time.

Many Klatch

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Many,
How many does the mold cast at a time?
thanks

 

[Stophel]

Rupert shot I know is common as dirt in 18th century archaeological sites. Have they ever found ANY of the jagged drip pieces?

Perhaps it should be called funnel cake shot...

 

[Britsmoothy]

If you can get that lead dripping through a 1/2mm hole to water with some oil floating on top 1/2" to 1" away you will get more use full shot. I have done it recently and it does work, will be trying some more tomorrow. I am even going to try dripping it on to a small ramp first then the water next.
Good luck.

 

[tg]

"
Rupert shot I know is common as dirt in 18th century archaeological sites. Have they ever found ANY of the jagged drip pieces?'

Hamiltons work covers many digs and nothing like the tadpole shot was mentioned, he did mention round moulded Swan shot however.

 

[Runner]

The reason the beaver pelts story does not go away is because it is what the factors in St. Louis said happened. The men that lived it. Not the men that look it up in books. That info comes from folks like my Gramp's that had a full blood mother from the plains and lived thru hosting the James boys several times and other such experiences. They said that the cost of a trade gun was a stack of beaver pelts as tall as the rifle. Now, I know that doesn't jibe with what the arm chair historians believe, but that is the truth straight up. If the story ever goes away, we will have lost the eye witness accounts from the period in favor of the musings of arm chair quarterbacks! What a shame!