SXS smoothbore?

[relicshunter]

I picked up a modern replica AMR C20 dbl. barrel at a recent gun show and I have researched all I can find on its history.
I am hoping to be able to shoot round ball as well as shot for turkey from this gun. Anyone have any advice for a new smoothie owner? I'm looking for load data but there's not much to be found for this particular gun on the WWW.
Also where do you guy's buy your lead shot from, all the local shops around me have none and gander mt. only carries heavy shot?
Any info is appreciated.

 

[bpd303]

Your shotgun was made by Antonio Marcos Rela, Eibar Spain, hence the logo. I think the name was changed to Avancargas Anchu sometime in the 70s. Can't help with the 20 gauge loads for it but my 12 ga is deadly on turkeys as long as I keep the range reasonable (under 40 yards). Don't expect smokeless performance out of it. You should be able to get shot at Bass Pro or Cabela's.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Sounds like your thinking stationary targets primarily. Not really my area.

Ballistic products is a good source for lead shot. (Lead's gotten expensive.) For Turkeys 10 lbs will last a lifetime. If you shoot targets or a lot of wingshooting, you can get a pretty good deal on shipping through Ballistic or Graf's by ordering two 25 lb bags (it will fit in a medium "priority-mail flat-rate box" ($15)).

TOW is good for other components.

 

[tralfae]

Lets get some basic information. What is the maximum rated load for the gun? What are the barrel chokes? The bottom line is that for turkeys you want the most consistent pattern at the highest load you are comfortable with. The most important issue is sealing out the gases from the shot column.

For starters, I would load 70 grains of 2F black powder. Then three lubed ~.06 - .08 thick nitro cards. When I say lubed, I mean something like crisco around the edges. Each card should be loaded individually and seated firmly. You know you got a good seal when the first card goes down relatively easy, the second has more back pressure, and the third has even more due to the bore seal. load the same volume of nickle plated 6 shot. In other words, use the same setting on your powder measure to load both powder and shot. Then put a over the shot nitro card of the same thickness. Get you a patterning target (usually about a 4x4 ft target with a turkey head in the middle. Shoot three targets at 25 - 30 yds and compare results, careful to clean the bore between shots (spit patch and dry patch). If you like what you see, up your powder to 80 grains of powder and 1 1/4 ounce of shot (80 grain setting on your measure for powder and 90 grain setting on your measure for shot) if it is a safe load for your gun. Shoot targets again and evaluate.

If you don't get the pattern density, you can put in a plastic shot cup above the over the powder nitro cards. Ballistic Products makes some good shot cups. Make sure you split the sides about .5 - .75 inches to get the shot to release from the cup. Lube the sides of the cup liberally and repeat tests. I have had great results with these, but not consistency.

I posted some results with a pillow ticking shot cup that look pretty good. You may not want to mess with it, but it produces good, consistent patterns.

For turkey loads, I recommend nickle plated shot. You can get it from Ballistic Products in 11 lb bags for about 50 bucks. Also can get it from cabelas if you like. Six shot has always produced the best patterns, but I like 5's also. Good luck and good hunting! Nothing like that first gobbler with a front stuffer!

 

[Britsmoothy]

Phew...sounds very complicated, any how I don't have turkeys but do have pheasants and their necks are smaller but I don't sweat none.

I try and keep it as simple as poss me.

I stamp my own cards and some leather.
Mostly a card and an oiled leather wad then a couple more of the overshot cards is good enough betwixt powder n' shot.
The olive oil gets sqeezed out the leather on firing and coats the bore keeping the foul soft and offering some protection to the bore.

Alternativly I use fiber wads soaked in olive oil but break them in two on loading, again the oil keeps crud soft. No overpowder card no nothin'.
No need to get fiddlin' with half a dozen or so different bits n' bobs. Just turns into a headache.

B :hatsoff:

 

[tralfae]

Its the difference between wounding and taking a turkey. Tough, tough birds, and if you are lucky enough to get him within 30 yds, you better be sure of your pattern (head shot). I also like simple, but you need to max out your gun for turkeys or wait for that 20 yd or less shot. The old master Starr was correct about using just one os cards to get a decent load. But he wasn't developing a turkey load for 30 yds on a bird that weighs 18 - 20 lb. Anyway, its all fun regardless of your application. When I squirrel hunt, I use a simple, fast wad column and have no problems. I would like to try pheasants one day.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Hmmmm, I think some folk assume that the more complicated they make something the better it will be. An assumption all the same.

B.

 

[tralfae]

No assumptions here, I pattern all my loads and know what works and what doesn't.

BTW, is it easy to hunt pheasants in England? I mean access to hunting land and owning a gun. Are you a member of a hunting club or is there public land? What are the hunting seasons? I have always been under the impression that its not worth pursuing because of strict regulations.

 

[Britsmoothy]

No assumptions here, I pattern all my loads and know what works and what doesn't.

BTW, is it easy to hunt pheasants in England? I mean access to hunting land and owning a gun. Are you a member of a hunting club or is there public land? What are the hunting seasons? I have always been under the impression that its not worth pursuing because of strict regulations.

No public land as such. Permission from a land owner can simply be given or bought. There are clubs yes. I am lucky as in I deal with pests and vermin and have retained much freedoms. Such freedoms include gleening the odd pheasant or two that benefit from less pressure from predation due in part from my activities on the lands I walk.
Smoothbore licences are straight forward enough. Rifle licences are harder but ok to get.
Pheasant season runs from October to Febuary the 1st. Game licenses are no longer needed.

Thanks.

B.

 

[tralfae]

Thats good to hear that one can still hunt. I see the rolling land of England with the woodlots and I think of turkeys. Its the kind of habitat they like, however, if you have many predators, fox and such, their ground nests won't make it.

The wife wants to come over for a visit so we may be on our way in a year or so when I retire. I can't wait to see the countryside.

What kind of gun do you shoot and what loads are you successful with? It sounds like you keep everything simple and use available materials. I am much the same way. I am a tinkerer, but not so much a detailed builder of guns. My muzzleloaders are replicas that I either purchased or built from a kit. When I retire, I plan on getting a custom gun built from one of the many fine gun makers in the US. I want a simple hunting rifle / shotgun patterned after a Southern long rifle.

I am anal and compulsive when loading for turkeys. This comes from years of chasing these elusive and smart birds. If I am lucky, i'll call one in to the gun every year. They are well known for stopping at 40 yards out, 10 yards out of range of my ML's. Anyway, its great sport.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thats good to hear that one can still hunt. I see the rolling land of England with the woodlots and I think of turkeys. Its the kind of habitat they like, however, if you have many predators, fox and such, their ground nests won't make it.

The wife wants to come over for a visit so we may be on our way in a year or so when I retire. I can't wait to see the countryside.

What kind of gun do you shoot and what loads are you successful with? It sounds like you keep everything simple and use available materials. I am much the same way. I am a tinkerer, but not so much a detailed builder of guns. My muzzleloaders are replicas that I either purchased or built from a kit. When I retire, I plan on getting a custom gun built from one of the many fine gun makers in the US. I want a simple hunting rifle / shotgun patterned after a Southern long rifle.

I am anal and compulsive when loading for turkeys. This comes from years of chasing these elusive and smart birds. If I am lucky, i'll call one in to the gun every year. They are well known for stopping at 40 yards out, 10 yards out of range of my ML's. Anyway, its great sport.

Come and have a look, head west when you get here and travel north, that way you will see most the unspoilt land. :thumbsup:
I cut my muzzleloader teeth on a CVA kentucky kit in .45 decades ago, a few have come and gone but just have a couple of repro's now. A peder' sxs and a Peder' trade gun.
Every bird I take is like taking ten with a cartridge gun, in fact the cartridge guns are getting used less and less content on letting critters get away and just taking the closer shots is fine with me.
I like to study the habits of critters and look for patterns that I can exploit, like hollowing a holly bush where some activity is occurring and watching and waiting.
I too am a tinkerer but walk alot so need to keep things simple, My dog may bolt a rabbit or a pigeon fly over....several shots or more per walk.
The 12g sxs shoots from 3/4oz to 1&1/4oz depending on what I am doing, I shoot that better than my cartridge guns!
The trade gun usually gets an oz droped in it with less powder.
All the best.

B.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Great thread and useful information.
I just moved to a house located amidst several thousand acres of crown land ( state land )
We moved Nov. 1st, so missed this season of hunting.
I look forward to telling my stories next year.
Tons of turkey here, with grouse, and pheasant.
So the above information on smooth bore hunting is welcome and exciting.
Thank you!
Old Ford ( Fred )

 

[Spikebuck]

A source for lead and shot of various sizes:
http://www.rotometals.com/default.asp

 

[relicshunter]

]20g[/url]
I am wondering what is it a replica of? I see pedersoli has a similar but fancy model. ]Link[/url]
Thanks for the info everyone. It cleaned up pretty good, just a light pitting. I need to replace the ramrod it is slightly cracked already. I need to figure out the nipple on it. They are the same thread, to my rifles(6x1 mm) ]Link[/url] ]Link[/url] but the base is wider and they will not hold a #10 or #11 cap. The one on the right is the shotgun's nipple. They are pretty smashed down. I am not sure what to try.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Looks like the nipples may be designed for 'musket' caps. Hard to tell for sure from photo scale. some folks deliberately change to 'musket' nipples just for the extra ooph. Try figuring out the exact nipple thread size and checking with TOTW or Dixie, they can give you a lot of good help. Good luck.

 

[Darkgael]

Powder loads for different gauges.....a simple guide that has worked for me is to look at modern shotshell boxes where one can sometimes find "dram equivalent" info. For 20 gauge, the dram equivalent is normally 2 1/2 drams of BP or about 68 grains (70 as suggested is right on). Loading.....in the field, I want my loading to be as simple as possible. I carry my charges - both powder and shot - premeasured. I use 0.125" thick nitro cards over the powder followed by a 1/4" thick fiber wad, then the shot, then a overshot card.
V.M. Starr - the grand old man of MLing shotguns - used only simple cardboard wads between powder and shot.
"I use only one kind of wads and those I cut from cardboard like display signs that are extra thick, about 3/32 is about right and use two of these on the powder and one on the shot. I have had several pretty wise gun men tell me that that is not enough wads before they saw the results but never have had one say a word further on the subject after they had seen one of my guns perform so loaded. You can put in more wads on the powder if you wish or if you enjoy cutting them but my experience tells me that you are just wasting your time and cardboard and in spite of the fact that shot gun shells have felt wads in them and always have had as far as I know I don't think they are at all necessary in a muzzle loader. Anyhow, if my guns shot any better I would not know what to do with the extra efficiency." - V.M. Starr.
The whole article is at: http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/starr.html

 

[kurts]

could you please post a pic of the threads, are they a coarse thread almost like a 1/4 -20 but metric 6mm ? I cannot find a nipple for my rifle any place, nobody has that coarse tread in 6mm. thanks kurt

 

[F.G. Ford]

Thank you Pete,
Good reading!
Fred

 

[frogwalking]

Someone may have already said this, and if so, accept my apologies. I have a 20 gauge flinter. I have found that using factory felt wads, lubed or otherwise, messes up my patterns. I tried using a single thick card wad over the powder with very good success, but the barrel fouled so badly I could not reload without running a wet patch down the barrel. To solve this issue, I bought some thick felt cloth. I lubed it with melted "old zip patch grease" basically mutton tallow and bees wax, and punched out wads using a 5/8 inch wad punch. Now I load powder, a waxed felt wad, thick card wad, shot and over powder wad. Much better patterns and I can reload over and over without cleaning. This system may not be a good idea in a double because of the charge in the second bbl moving from the first bbl recoil. I don't know about this, but be aware that it can happen.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Similar experience to mine there and done a similar cure here. Card then leather stamped from welders gloves soaked in olive oil (shoot all week), card and shot etc.
The fiber wads are ok but break them in half on loading so they dont upset the shot at the muzzle.

B.