T/C 56cal & Shot

[[email protected]]

Hi
I have a 56cal smoothbore barrel for my Renegade that I don't use much anymore and was thinking about working up some shot loads for it. I have never tried shooting shot with a muzzleloader before. Who has done with a similar set up and what seemed to work? Anyone go after turkey with it, or anything else?
Thanks
H

 

[roundball]

Hi
I have a 56cal smoothbore barrel for my Renegade that I don't use much anymore and was thinking about working up some shot loads for it. I have never tried shooting shot with a muzzleloader before. Who has done with a similar set up and what seemed to work? Anyone go after turkey with it, or anything else?
Thanks
H

I've got a GM .54cal(.28ga) Flint smoothbore barrel...outstanding big strong barrel...trap targets, small game, turkeys, etc.
My loads are:

TRAP
60grns (or 70grns) Goex 3F
Two .58cal Oxyoke wonderwads
1oz (or 1+1/8oz) HARD #8's
Circle Fly OS card

SMALL GAME
70grns Goex 3F
Two .58cal Oxyoke wonderwads
1+1/8oz HARD #6's
Circle Fly OS card

TURKEY
80grns Goex 3F
Two .58cal Oxyoke wonderwads
1+3/8oz HARD 6's
Circle Fly OS card

 

[Slamfire]

I've been using the standard 28 gauge loading of 2 drams (55 grains) of Wano FFg, followed by 2 9/16" cards 3/4 oz (same volume as the powder)of #6 shot, followed by 1 9/16" over shot card. It throws an adequate pattern at 25 yards, but it could be better. I'm thinkin' of increasin' the shot charge to 7/8 or even 1 oz. We're not allowed anything less'n 20 gauge for turkey. I might try jug chokein' it to tighten up the pattern. :v

 

[shootemup]

I wouldn't recommend the .56 for turkey, although it might work if you're VERY close.
I do use one of these for small game with good results. 60 grains 2f Goex, .54 Wonder Wad, equivalent volume of #6 shot, another Wonder Wad. Works great.
Mark

 

[whitetrash078]

I use 75 grns ffg and 90 grns of shot and your choice of wads and or cards. Mine likes overpowder card + cushion wad + another over powder card + over shot card. Some would say it is to heavy a load but it works for me. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

"I use 75 grns ffg and 90 grns of shot........"
"Some would say it is to heavy a load but it works for me."

It's a sensible, responsible load...I use everything from 1oz to 1+3/8oz loads in my .54cal and up to 1+5/8oz in the larger .62cal.
I think too many people try to compare & use a particular BP smoothbore like a modern shotgun of the same guage.

Blackpowder has much lower pressures than modern shotgun powders...and, very often muzzleloaders have thicker stronger barrels...for both of these reasons larger shot payloads than a comparable modern shotgun guage normally uses, are easily accommodated in a BP smoothbore.

A good example is my .62cal turkey load...I wouldn't waste my time turkey hunting if I didn't have a dependable 40 yard load I could count on.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The problem I see with your load is the small diameter of the barrel. A 56 caliber barrel is going to have a lot of pellets rubbing against the inside of the barrel as the load is fired.

I have a friend who shoots an 8 gauge single barrel gun. With light loads, 3 drams of powder, 1 1/2 oz of shot, he gets terrific patterns, and of course, almost no recoil. That would be a medium to heavy load for a 12 gauge shotgun. In his 8 gauge, it would be like shooting 3/4 oz. of shot and 2 drams of powder in a 12 gauge shotgun, a 28 gauge load!

When you use the amount of shot you now are using, or use even more as suggested by Round Ball, you create a narrow column of shot that resembles that seen in the modern .410 cartridge. So many pellets are distorted and flattened in that cartridge when its fired that very few pellets are still in the pattern after 25 yards.

I think the better approach would be to use lighter powder charges and lighter shot loads, as recommended for 28 gauge guns by V.M. Starr.
[url] http://members.aye.net/~bspen/starr.html[/url]

If you want to hunt game birds larger than dove, quail, or grouse, use a larger bore smoothbore. Now, if you decide to use a modern plastic shotcup to protect those pellets, you CAN get improved patterns. Most ML smoothie shooters are purists, so I only suggest that as another " solution " but one you may not want to take. I agree with Round Ball that we should not treat ML shotguns using Black Powder like modern guns shooting smokeless powder. However, I don't think you can get better patterns without choke, and Round Ball confirms that by having had his shotgun barrel Jug Choked so he can kill turkeys at 40 yds.

 

[whitetrash078]

I'll probably never use this gun for birds but instead for squirrels and maybe rabbits in the garden. Do you think if I put a buffer with the pellets like cream of wheat it could help with pellet distortion. I have tried lighter loads and had only marginal success, but that could be my wad combo or other variables.

 

[roundball]

Shot comes in various degrees of lead and lead/antimony alloy.

Lead shot = soft lead, deforms

Chilled shot = 1-2% antimony for a little hardness, less distortion than pure lead;

Hard / Magnum shot = 4-5% antimony...least amount of distortion

If you use magnum shot, as the shooter, you shouldn't see any performance concerns from shot distortion...

 

[paulvallandigham]

Consider the range you would shoot at rabbits and squirrels in your garden. Most of your shots will be under 75 feet, I would think, NO? If I can walk up to within 6 feet of a sitting rabbit in a lawn, I can't imagine you can't get to within 25 yards of a rabbit, even if they are getting gunshy because you are shooting a lot of them. A rabbits first defense is to freeze. It only runs when it is scared. As to squirrels, they defend themselves by going to the other side of the tree. 75 feet up in a tree is a long distance.

With those ideas in mind, I think you will do much better with using less shot, and not more. Will buffers help? Yes, but the only buffers that are small enough to settle down between your shot pellets would be something like PufLon, which is a super fine synthetic pellet, that is a little on the expensive side. I would not waste the money. At the short range you will be shooting, you probably don't even need to use 2 drams, and can use 1 1/2 drams( 41 grains) under an 3/4 oz. load. You could use 28 gauge plastic wads to tighten your groups, but I don't think its necessary at ranges of 25 yards and under. Most of your velocity will be lost in the first 20 yards. If you load more powder under a load, the velocity will reduce faster. Its a basic law of physics, and not something I made up. Whatever goes out faster, slows faster( in air.) Use light loads, but use #6 shot on rabbits and squirrels instead of #71/2 or #8 shot. Yes, the smaller shot size will give you more pellets, and if you were shooting pigeons or doves, I would recommend the smaller shot. But for rabbits and squirrels, you want a pellet that carries enough energy to penetrate the fur and hide. So, use #6, or #5 shot for these animals. At these distances, these pellets retain a lot of energy to penetrate the fur, hide, and muscles to get to the vital organs for a quick kill.

Having said all that, if you are planning to take shots out at 40 yards. ( 120 feet ), You need to get that barrel jug choked, just as Round ball did to his turkey barrel. And, you will have to be a better shot than I am and know exactly where that pattern is going to hit at that range. Then, of course, I would increase both the powder charge( to 2 drams) and maybe to 1 oz. of shot. I would also use the plastic shotcups, and see how that load works in the jug choked barrel at that long range.

 

[[email protected]]

Who would do Jug choking on a T/C barrel? Is it possible to get it done.
I am still going to try and see what kind of patterns I can get with the barrel as it is.

Great disscussion :bow: , thanks for the info. :hatsoff:
H

 

[roundball]

Lowell Tennyson
209 E Lotte St.
Blue Grass IA. 52726
563-381-3711
[email protected]

Jug Choked my 1" x 33" GM .62cal smoothbore drop-in barrel for the Hawken/Renegade...$60 + UPS both ways.

 

[M.L.Rowland]

What is a Jug Choke? Thanks,Mike

 

[Rebel]

Check here.[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum...409883/hl/jug+choke/fromsearch/1/#409883[/url]

 

[roundball]

What is a Jug Choke? Thanks,Mike

Essentially it's a .020"-.030" expansion chamber a couple inches long that's created just an inch or so inside the muzzle.

Instead of "adding" a 'constriction' at the end of a bore which is what a modern choke does, this actual enlargement (expansion chamber) within a bore is placed in just the right location prior to muzzle exit, and actually creates the effects of a choke, without actually choking anything at all.

Something about the physics / dynamics that occur on the shot column as it first expands then gets forced back down to the original cylinder bore size just before muzzle exit produces tighter patterns...gunsmith explained it to me that as the outer layers of shot expand they start to slow down ever so slightly, while the central portion of the column continues on full speed...then the outer layers get forced back down onto the moving central portion and results in a tigthter pattern.

All I know is that it works...my Jug Choked .62cal averages 16 #6s in a 3.5" tuna can at 40yds...turkey hunters dream.

 

[M.L.Rowland]

Is it permanent. Or can you take it out. Thanks,Mike

 

[roundball]

Oh it's permanent...an expansion chamber .015" -.030" larger in diameter than the cylinder bore barrel is created a few inches in from the muzzle, then taper-steps are made bringing the exit path of the expansion back down to the normal size bore an inch or two back from the muzzle.

 

[M.L.Rowland]

Can you still shot round balls in them? Thanks,Mike

 

[roundball]

Can you still shot round balls in them? Thanks,Mike

Yes...I carried a handful of balls with me to the range the day I patterned the turkey barrel and ran them through it at 50yds...all in a 3" aim point sticker at 50yds but with an occasional flyer which I assumed was due to the jug choke.

But later, trying the identical PRB load in an identical smoothbore barrel without a jug choke, I got the same occasional flyer...pulled my hair out trying to figiure out why until I finally discovered the flyer was caused by using an Oxyoke wad under the ball...if I just used the patch by iteslf I got no flyers...start using a wad again and I would get a flyer every now and then.

I use Oxyoke wads with every "rifled" hunting laod I use, in all calibers, and they always improve accuracy for me...but for some reason using them in the .62cal smoothbore with a PRB caused an occasional flyer...maybe 1 out of 6-8 shots...a few inches off to the side of the group...and it was definitely the wad causing it, not the jug choke.

 

[M.L.Rowland]

Soit is a great deer and turkey getter. I still have not found a good deal on a 54 cal to put .62 cal smoothie yet. I am still looking. I am thinkin of getting that T/C 50 cal. sidelock I told you about. I looked at it again the other day. It is in great shape. For $139.00 I think it is a great deal. I guess I could buy some smaller cal. barrels for it too. I think the 50 cal.is 15/16 wide barrel right. Thanks,Mike