T/C Renegade

[Rob Johnson]

Hello all,
Pleased to make your acquaintance!

This is my first post and my first bp rifle ever. I picked up a Thompson Center Renegade the other day for a pretty good deal and I have a few questions.
Well, more than a few but I'll go slow for now :wink:

First off, this is a 54 caliber rifle...can I use round ball in this gun?

Secondly (and I realize this question might start a war...be gentle) what kind of black powder should I use?

Thanks everyone! Great site!

Rob

 

[ncmtmike]

Well son ,I personally hope you will use roundballs :grin: as far as powder lots of folks use GOEX,if you can find someone close by,try both the FFg & FFFg,see which your smokepole likes the best,but you gots to burn some powder to figure a few things out.
Don't be afeared to ask questions,we is here to help iffin we can :grin:

Mike

 

[bubba.50]

a .530diam roundball with a proper thickness patch, probably around 15 to 18 thousandths should work fine in yer gun. T/C maxi-balls will work in it too. a lot of people live in areas where real blackpowder is hard to come by so, they use subs like pyrodex or 777. 2f or 3f granulation either one will work. as far as anything else, fire away with all the questions you can think of. all here will be glad to help all they can. luck to ya & have a good'en, bubba.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the Forum.

Your TC will shoot either patched roundballs or lead bullets.

A .530 diemeter lead roundball with a .015 to .018 thick patch will probably shoot as good or better than the bullets. Don't forget to lubricate the patch before loading. Crisco or a vegetable cooking oil will work although many like to mix up their own concoction.

The percussion (cap) guns can shoot any black powder or black powder substitute on the market.

About the least expensive substitute is Pyrodex.
Load it in the same volumetric amount as real black powder.

You didn't mention if you have a powder measure but when starting out, the adjustable kind are the handiest. Something that can measure 30-120 grains of powder would be about right.

If you shoot a patched ball, you will need something to get the patch/ball started into the muzzle.

A wooden block or a "short starter" (a wooden ball with 2 short dowels sticking out of it) will work.

With a patched roundball, I suggest that you start with a 60 grain powder load.
Shoot at least 5 shots with it and find out where it is hitting and if the group is small or large.

From there, come back and tell us how you did.
We can guide you thru the load development and sighting in process if you need it.

Have fun.

 

[Don Steele]

Welcome Rob,
Where are you located in Florida...???
Over here on the E. coast we have a great group that shoots BP in Palm Bay. If you're anywhere close...I can get you more information.
Otherwise...you'll get a LOT of assistance here by searching for previous Renegade related posts, and posting your own experiences as you go along. :thumbsup:

 

[Rob Johnson]

Hi Don,

I am in Sebastian too! Small world, huh? I was actually thinking about going out to PMRPC this weekend and trying out the bp range....if it EVER stops raining.

So far, this site is a wealth of information for a newbie.

I do have another quick question for everyone: I have been into reloading for about a year now. I have reloaded thousands of .380, 9mm and .44 magnum in that year. One thing I have learned is that the powder measure is VERY critical. However, it seems from what I have been reading, that muzzle loading bp rifles are not as sensitive to the powder measure. From what I have read, you can dump anywhere from 60-120 grains in front of the ball and be safe. IS that true???? How is that possible???

I am really curious about that. I am looking forward to having fun with this rifle but I don't wanna blow anything up in the process :grin:

Thanks again for the advise and warm welcome!
Rob

 

[ncmtmike]

You say you are into reloading? Well let me say this,under NO circumstance do you use Smokeless powder in that muzzleloader,that is a death sentence waiting to be carried out. You will find that 60 to 80 grs is all you will need of Black/Pyrodex,to shoot accurately.

 

[Roguedog]

Rob,
First off. Congrats on the new gun. I too have a T/C Renegade and it is a fine gun. I love toting mine into the woods from time to time.

Second,
I too am a reloader. Whereas a tenth of a grain of smokeless powder can make a difference, you will find that blackpowder and the different substititues are not as sensitive to powder variances. Having said that, it is prudent to still be careful and measure your loads as accurately as you can. However, if your off by a grain or five of blackpowder, you will not blow up your gun.

The advice Zonie gave is good. Start with a lighter load, such as 60 grains, and work up. This is not so much for pressure issues as it is for obtaining your most accurate load. I have found that with all my guns, there is a 5-10 grain window where I find my best accuracy. All guns are different and whereas I may shoot 75 grains, your gun might like 80 grains or 100 grains, etc. With my .54 cal, I generally don't go over 100 grains. I think the guns can safely handle it but I have found that my accuracy is better with lighter loads and they give me all the power I need to do the job at hand, which is humanely harvesting whitetail deer. Currently I am using 70 grains of 3F blackpowder in my .54 and while this may be a lighter load, it will shoot clean through a whitetail deer. I know this from experience.

Please let us know if you have any questions as you go along. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum. Glad to have you with us.

Jeff

 

[Rob Johnson]

Very good advise! Thank you. I watched a Youtube video last night of a guy who loaded smokeless in a bp rifle for demonstration purposes. NOT PRETTY!!
The gun exploded, to say the least. The guy on the video used some poignant verbiage when he said that using smokeless powder in a bp rifle essentially turns it into a pipe bomb 12 inches from your face.
Scary stuff indeed!

The really bad part is that I know someone, somewhere down the road had to learn this lesson the hard way.

Thanks again for the really sound advise!

Rob

 

[Grenadier1758]

I want to emphasize that powder measure for black powder is volume measure. While the volume for 3fg powder will weigh close to the volume setting, the substitutes are less dense and the volume measure will weigh about 10% less than black powder.

For percussion guns, black powder is best. However if black powder is not available, the substitute can provide good performance. All powders leave corrosive fouling in the barrel. The difference is quantity and consistent ease of loading. All fired guns have to be cleaned of the fouling and a rust preventing lubricant applied to the bore for storage. Read any of the threads on cleaning black powder guns.

 

[Roguedog]

As Grenadier said, blackpowder is measured by volume, not weight. Another big difference between blackpowder and smokeless is that with blackpowder, you must be diligent in cleaning your gun very soon after you get done shooting. It doesn't take long for rust to set in after shooting blackpowder. My motto is never let the sun go down on a dirty bore.

Jeff

 

[mike3132]

70 grain FFF black powder, .530 round ball, .018 pillow ticking patch, lubed with mink oil will shoot fantastic groups in both my T/C .54's.

 

[don hepler]

I'll attempt to answer your question about black powder vs. smokeless powder. First... smokeless powder burns at furious rate, giving off gases that continue to raise the pressure in the barrel. As you know there are different powders for the same caliber, that have a different burn rate. Bullseye in a pistol is very fast burning, while Alliant 2400 is much slower.

Now black powder is considered an explosive. It builds pressure when it is fired, at lower pressures than smokeless, but pressure falls off quickly. Even though you can add more, a lot is unburned, and pushed out of the barrel.

The chemical makeup between the two are totally different. That's why smokeless powder(considered a propellant) and black powder (considered an explosive), have to be handled by carriers and stored different by sellers.

The substitute powders, are made of a different chemical makeup, to be safe in black powder guns, but also are "not" considered explosive, and transporting and storing is the same as smokeless.

Never put smokeless in a black powder gun. Only use black powder by Volume. As for substitute black powder, read the manufacturers recommendations, because some are more powerful and must be reduced in volume.

Shot my Renegade, yesterday. 1 1/2" group at 50 Yrds. Pretty good for 64 year old eyes.

 

[don hepler]

One thing, I forgot. Don't look for black powder, on the shelf, in a store. You have to ask for it. It has to be stored in a special container. A lot of hazmat requirements to meet, for stores to sell real black powder.

 

[Maven]

Maybe you'll want to download and read this: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/286576/pid/1367084/post/last/m/1/#LAST

 

[BullRunBear]

Rob, Welcome to the Forum and congratulations on the Renegade. I've used a 50 caliber Renegade for over 30 years. Not fancy but reliable, sturdy and accurate.

I can't add anything to the load advise above but remember you have that hooked breech barrel. Makes it easy to remove the barrel from the stock for cleaning. I take out the nipple and clean it separately and stick the breech end in a bucket of water. Use a fairly tight fitting patch on the jag and push it up and down to draw in and expel the water. Makes thorough cleaning much easier. Make sure the barrel is dry then use a rust preventative.

Sounds like you have a local group to shoot with. You'll get great info here but having a chance at hands-on learning is a real advantage.

Jeff

 

[huntinguy]

I have a pair of 54 Renegades.

One shoots round balls okay (4 inches at 100 yards) the other will hold less than 2 inches with conicals (tc type), but using RB in the Conical gun or conicals in the RB gun and I can't hold them on a pie plate.

My RB gun hunting load is 100 of FFF G&O. the conical gun is 90 of FF G&O.

don't let anyone fool you. BP guns are just as susceptible to powder charge variations as any other gun. If I weigh the powder for my concial gun I have been able to do three shots in 1 inch at 100.

The other thing BP is susceptible to is loading pressure. That is a tough one to over come. The 1 inch group was shot using a bathroom scale to load with and the powder weighed to within .5 grains.

Patch lube also makes a difference. I have a couple that I tried in my RB gun, Crisco worked best for me. But, others have found different.

 

[Don Steele]

You've got a PM Rob. In case you don't get to it though, let me tell you here as well, that the BP shoot scheduled for Saturday at Port Malabar has been cancelled due to high water on the range.
Another time partner....Oct. 11 is the next regularly scheduled "open" BP shoot (i.e.:not necessary to be a club member to get on the grounds).

 

[Rob Johnson]

You've got a PM Rob. In case you don't get to it though, let me tell you here as well, that the BP shoot scheduled for Saturday at Port Malabar has been cancelled due to high water on the range.
Another time partner....Oct. 11 is the next regularly scheduled "open" BP shoot (i.e.:not necessary to be a club member to get on the grounds).

Thanks Don! Sure, lets get together if it ever stops raining!!

I bought some GOEX at Bass Pro tonight. Any thoughts on the performance of that powder? I'm going to give it a shot this weekend. :grin:

Thanks again for all the good advise for this newbie!

 

[gearheart]

Goex is great stuff. Used to be Dupont, a well respected name in gunpowder since the time when flint locks were cutting edge technology.