shortstart
36 Cal.
What size round ball in a 56 Renegade? I’m thinking around 50- 60 gr. Charge? Input greatly appreciated.
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T-C smoothbore Renegade
- Thread starter shortstart
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Daryl Crawford
50 Cal.
I'm jealous of your gun! The advice above makes sense. .545 may also work well with a thicker patch.
Shortstart
Heard of barn finds? Found my TC Hawken 56 cal SB at a flea market for $140.00. It was in excellent condition. I also bought a .550 Jeff Tanner mould that a member of this forum sold me at a very reasonable price. I cast the bullets and found that the .550 and a .012 patch worked out well. I used 70 gr of 2F pyrodex. The only problem I had was getting that lead ball down the barrel. I know the barrel was clean. Next time I'll try going to a thinner patch like a .010 patch. Should shoot as well as a .012 patch and easier to load.
Cobra 6
Heard of barn finds? Found my TC Hawken 56 cal SB at a flea market for $140.00. It was in excellent condition. I also bought a .550 Jeff Tanner mould that a member of this forum sold me at a very reasonable price. I cast the bullets and found that the .550 and a .012 patch worked out well. I used 70 gr of 2F pyrodex. The only problem I had was getting that lead ball down the barrel. I know the barrel was clean. Next time I'll try going to a thinner patch like a .010 patch. Should shoot as well as a .012 patch and easier to load.
Cobra 6
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What was your lube? Mine loaded nice with .015-16 mattress ticking lubed wet with bear oil /good sub is Neats foot oil . Either one will make life easier/Ed
Stikshooter
I used a pre-lube and for the life of me don't remember the brand. I do remember them having a .012 thickness. I'll try your recommendation and see how it loads. TKS.
Cobra 6
I used a pre-lube and for the life of me don't remember the brand. I do remember them having a .012 thickness. I'll try your recommendation and see how it loads. TKS.
Cobra 6
I have had a few .56 smoothies and they all did well with a .535 ball and pillow ticking patch.
Rebel,
You know..I think I have some .535s for my 54 Cal. Will definitely try it. I'm relatively new to muzzle loading, what thickness is a pillow ticking patch? I suspect that they are thicker patches compared to others.
Cobra 6
You know..I think I have some .535s for my 54 Cal. Will definitely try it. I'm relatively new to muzzle loading, what thickness is a pillow ticking patch? I suspect that they are thicker patches compared to others.
Cobra 6
Ticking normally runs around .017"-.018"
Pillow ticking thickness will vary depending on the manufacturer. I have seen pillow ticking from 0.012" thick to 0.017" thick. The tightness of the weave will determine the thickness when compressed. There are some striped patching sold that is 0.010" thick. I would look for the thicker patching because you want it to compress tightly and fill the grooves. Digital calipers are a good buy and do a reasonably good job of measuring thickness as well as inside diameters. For a lot of reasons we should all have a digital caliper.
So according to you experienced guys above, having a slightly hard time pushing the lead down the barrel is really ok. The patch is forced up against the rifling is really a good way to secure a tight fit and eventually produce better accuracy. I'm not getting the accuracy that I want now but I'm getting smarter. Sticshooter (MLF member) mentions mattress patches, ??????? lubed with bear oil or Neats foot oil. I'm going to try that Neats foot oil. Maybe I can get the same compression with less effort.
Cobra 6
Cobra 6
Cobra 6, just as suggestion, you may want to start with a thin patch because your smoothbore has no grooves for the patch to compress into.
@Cobra6,
Since you have a smoothbore, there is no rifling or grooves to fill with your patching. You need patching or wadding or whatever to hold the ball in place. That's why I recommend a digital caliper to measure the bore. A cheap Harbor Freight caliper is good enough for smooth bore applications.
A ball undersized to the bore by one patch thickness will compress the two thicknesses of patching enough to hold the ball in place on the powder, yet won't be hard to load. Use lubrication of some sort to make loading easier. Olive oil is good as well as lubricants from spit to multicomponent exotic lubricants.
Since you have a smoothbore, there is no rifling or grooves to fill with your patching. You need patching or wadding or whatever to hold the ball in place. That's why I recommend a digital caliper to measure the bore. A cheap Harbor Freight caliper is good enough for smooth bore applications.
A ball undersized to the bore by one patch thickness will compress the two thicknesses of patching enough to hold the ball in place on the powder, yet won't be hard to load. Use lubrication of some sort to make loading easier. Olive oil is good as well as lubricants from spit to multicomponent exotic lubricants.
Grenadier, ppg1949
Yea...What I should have said is "The patch is forced up against the bore to secure a good fit and produce better accuracy".
Anyway this muzzle loading (shooting black powder) is a lot of fun. I find one must be somewhat creative when experimenting with the right combination of powder charge, type of projectile, casting them, patch thickness, lube and choice if sights, ETC. Very challenging. Grenadier.....off to Harbor Freight to buy a caliper. Hope their open with all this "lock-down" stuff in place. Ramble....Ramble.
Cobra 6
Yea...What I should have said is "The patch is forced up against the bore to secure a good fit and produce better accuracy".
Anyway this muzzle loading (shooting black powder) is a lot of fun. I find one must be somewhat creative when experimenting with the right combination of powder charge, type of projectile, casting them, patch thickness, lube and choice if sights, ETC. Very challenging. Grenadier.....off to Harbor Freight to buy a caliper. Hope their open with all this "lock-down" stuff in place. Ramble....Ramble.Cobra 6
Why use a patch? I don't.
Britsmoothy
That's interesting...what size ball do you use? Do you use a wad between powder and ball?
Cobra 6
That's interesting...what size ball do you use? Do you use a wad between powder and ball?
Cobra 6
You'll have to test this for yourself, C6 as some smoothbores do very well with "bare ball" loads while others do not. E.g., my 20ga. trade gun is more accurate with a patched .598" RB than a "bare" .619" RB (with a greased over powder wad, but no wad over the ball as it is a tight fit in the bore). As for the T/C smoothbore, I never thought to try a bare ball load in it. Try both your gun, with the same powder charge, and let us know how it does.
I don't use wads under my ball. A few thin cards do better. Or thin leather or hat felt lubricated. A thin card on top.
A thick wad kicks the ball inconsistently at the muzzle.
A thick wad kicks the ball inconsistently at the muzzle.
Gentleman
So....I think what I will start with is an unpatched .550 over 70 gr of 2FF pyrodex powder. I'll try a thin card on top. Britsmoothy (member) suggests not using a patch, I'll try that. What I'll also try is a thin patch with .550, over 70 gr of 2FF with olive oil as a lube. If non of the above work, I'll try other combinations. TKS all for the recommendations.
I've come to the conclusion that there is nothing finite about shooting black powder. With all the variables concerning charge, bullet size, patching, ETC, this is really an art form. Each year I bag 2-3 deer. I load my 1894 Marlin with some 44 mags, climb the tree stand and bag the deer. It's not that hard, especially when using a scope. On the other hand, hunting with black powder is going to be a real challenge considering all the steps needed to find the right combination of "stuff" to make my 56 SB fire accurately. And with iron sights. For you guys that have been shooting BP for a while, I'm sure this is all an "ingenious for the obvious."
Cobra 6
So....I think what I will start with is an unpatched .550 over 70 gr of 2FF pyrodex powder. I'll try a thin card on top. Britsmoothy (member) suggests not using a patch, I'll try that. What I'll also try is a thin patch with .550, over 70 gr of 2FF with olive oil as a lube. If non of the above work, I'll try other combinations. TKS all for the recommendations.
I've come to the conclusion that there is nothing finite about shooting black powder. With all the variables concerning charge, bullet size, patching, ETC, this is really an art form. Each year I bag 2-3 deer. I load my 1894 Marlin with some 44 mags, climb the tree stand and bag the deer. It's not that hard, especially when using a scope. On the other hand, hunting with black powder is going to be a real challenge considering all the steps needed to find the right combination of "stuff" to make my 56 SB fire accurately. And with iron sights. For you guys that have been shooting BP for a while, I'm sure this is all an "ingenious for the obvious."
Cobra 6
For me, finding a suitable material for a patch, i.e., thin enough and 100% cotton, was almost as difficult as finding a .550" RB mould. JoAnn Fabrics carries such a material, but I can't give you specifics as to the manufacturer or lot number at the moment. However, with a thin over powder wad and 80gr. FFg, I've never had a patch burn up. 25 yd. accuracy was VG; 50 yd. will need more testing though. As an alternative, a .535" RB + an appropriately thicker patch is also something to consider. Lee Precision's mould is well-made and available if you want to go that route. Good luck with your testing!
