TC rifles that shoot to right??

[Rat Trapper]

I have noticed a lot of the TC rifles shoot to the right. In some cases the rear sight is moved over to the left an awful lot or the front sight has to be moved over to the right to help zero. Is this cause the flats are not milled parallel to the bore? Or does it have to do with the insallation of the breech plug?

 

[catman]

Send the barrel back to T/C, tell them the problem. They will make it right, they may have to send you a new barrel.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I plan to send this barrel back to TC later on. I was just wondering if anyone here knew what causes this? Most of the rifles I have seen with this problem the rear sight would adjust for it, but in some cases it was pretty far off to the left. since it does not happen in all the rifles, there must be a reason for it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Unless the stock is SEVERELY warped, and pushing against the barrel on the side, the problem is most likely a barrel with the bore drilled off-center, or with " Run-out off-center at one end. Normally, when this happens, the barrel is scrapped, or bored to the next size caliber so that the bore can be straightened. In the old days, the run-out end of the barrel was put at the rear, with the breech, so that the centered end of the bore was at the muzzle. The Run-out was put at the bottom flat when the barrel was breeched, so that any change in POI could be corrected by the sights used.

Today, most barrels are made out of 20 foot long stock, and then sections cut up to length desired. The flats are ground into the barrel, or done with milling machines, or shapers, with the bore held on matching centers. These " Plum centered" barrels are the standard now, I am told. There should be no run-out. However, some of the practices used in individual shops can create barrels that have a crooked bore, and other problems. Using button cutters to rifle the barrel can produce problems if the buttons are passed through the bore too fast, for instance. Buttons don't actually cut steel- but rather move it under high pressure. That is one of the reasons that Kryogenic treatment of barrels has come about- to remove the stress to the steel barrels that occurs during the rifling operations using buttons.

Perhaps some technician at T/C will tell you what happened to your barrel. Don't hold your breath.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Paul,
Thanks for the info. Anyone else have any thoughts on this problem???

 

[Little Wattsy]

I have 5 T/C barrels and they are all dead straight shooters....I dont know.

 

[necchi]

The shooter is "peeking". Moving the gun to the right to see the target after pulling the trigger.
It happens ALOT easier than ya think. Very common.
Concentrate on follow through by bringing the muzzle back to point of aim, and look across the sights to see whare the ball hit the target.

My T/C's have always shot a bit left, with only small adjustments of the rear sight to the right to get center.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If that is a possibility, then have another good shooter shoot the gun, and see if he gets the same result. Then you will know its something the shooter is doing.

My wife was flinching at the last moment when she fired her shotgun. I caught it when I stood behind her and looked over her shoulder while she fired at stationary clay pigeons on an embankment. At the last second, she would look at the front sight with her left eye. Once we got her to close that left eye when shooting, she began hitting flying targets( and those stationary ones, too) regularly. I started loading her gun for her, and sometimes omitting to put a shell in the gun. That broke her flinch quickly, as she could then easily see what she was doing, jerking the trigger on an empty chamber.

Sometimes a stock needs Cast off to fit the face properly. Anticipating recoil by lifting the face off the stock, is much more likely a cause of wide shots, than "sneaking a peek"! On factory stocks, often the comb is too high for some shooters, or the LOP is too long. :hmm: Lowering the gun too soon can also cause problems, and if the stock is too long, neck cramping is common as a source of problems in lifting the head off the stock too soon. A gun should be mounted to the shoulder and your eye looking down the barrel at both sights, at the same time. If you have to lower your head to see the sights, or move your head right or left, You are mounting the gun incorrectly. The stock may not fit you, and that will be the root cause for why you are mounting it wrong, but you have to mount the stock to your face and shoulder at the same time. I was re-educated, myself, by a good friend and Champion Shotgun shooter, to thrust the stock forward, and bring the rifle or shotgun up so I was looking down the sights as the gun came back to my face and shoulder. No dipping my head!

When I studied combat pistol shooting, with John Farnam, he trained us all to move the pistol up to our eyes,and not lower our heads to the pistol, using a two-hand combat hold, or grip. I smiled, remembering all the effort I had put in learning to mount my shotgun and rifle the same way. :surrender: :thumbsup:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Stock fit can be adjusted. Plenty of $10,000.00 shotguns get their stocks bent to the customer's face for proper alignment.

Most of the problems I see with T/C rifle sights at our club are with used guns where someone just wasn't happy UNTIL they changed the sights on the rifle, then they sold it to a gun shop, and then the next guy is left wondering what is going on with the sights. Hardly happens with guns where the sights were left as stock, and not messed with! Some original rear T/C sights work loose from side to side and you don't realize it until you start missing. Check your sights for looseness BEFORE you begin adjusting them, so you don't drive yourself NUTS :wink:

Dave

 

[tg]

"Most of the problems I see with T/C rifle sights at our club are with used guns where someone just wasn't happy UNTIL they changed the sights on the rifle,"

Changing the sights on TC's is a good way to bring them closer to the Traditional way of things, I have seen several with a primitive rear dovetailed in and a flat blade on the front they look pretty good when that is done.

 

[brubincam]

-----I took the sights off mine--30 some yrs ago--put a blade on front and took a leaf sight from an old 22 rifle for the rear--shot very accurate after that-----

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

It's O-K to change sights IF you do it right! It (my comment) has NOTHING to do with traditional vs. high vis stock sights. I was taken the wrong way, or possibly out of context of my original meaning. What I was trying to get across is that some folks just have to screw with something because they think they can, not because they KNOW HOW to do it right. More dovetails have been smashed-up and barrels scratched by idiots than I care to mention. It's these same idiots that put the (new) rear sight on loose.

Now as far as shooting with traditional sights, your blood pressure will be calmed by the fact that I use the old traditional sights on my Lyman Trade Rifle and adjusted the rear sight (dove tail) with a block of pine and a hammer several years ago, and have left the thing ALONE! Cutting playing cards in half at 25 yards is good enough for me. So is winning competitions against peep sights and the occasional .45-70 BPCR!

It IS amazing what traditional open sights can do with good 'ol Kentucky windage and elevation :thumbsup:

Dave

 

[Rat Trapper]

Just for the record I am a competion high power rifle shooter and have earned the ditinguised pistol shot badge. The problem is not with every TC ML I have. Other shooters had the same results. So I wrote this post in an attempt to figure out why this happens. I'm pretty sure there is a problem with the barrel. Seems most likely something wasn't done to spec's when it was made.

 

[nkbj]

Just a thought...
Once had a TC with enough rattle space slop in the windage adjustment on the rear sight to shift the point of impact. Figure you probably would have noticed such a thing but was worth mentioning.

 

[roboskittle]

When I bought my T/C Hawken the rear sight was adjusted way out to the left. I have yet to shoot this gun yet so I have no clue what it will do. My Renegade on the other hand is centered dead on and it shoots where you point it. Once I shoot the Hawken I will report back with what it is actually doing.

 

[gmww]

I'm pretty sure there is a problem with the barrel. Seems most likely something wasn't done to spec's when it was made.

If your thinking the barrel is warped/bent, take it out and lay it on its flats on a smooth flat surface for a visual inspection. Also look at the muzzle (unloaded of course) to see if the bore is off center. Just something to start with.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I've encountered two T/C Hawkens which required both front and rear sights far off center to get shots on the paper at 50 yards. I don't now recall if the displacement was right or left but it was very considerable. The barrels seemed to be straight on the exterior but apparently the bore was not straight down the barrel. I also spoke with a fellow who does reboreing work and he mentioned that he has encountered problems with T/C barrels that were centered at both ends but the bore wandered off in the middle.

 

[gmww]

I'm brain storming.

I wonder if someone was to slide a .50" dowel (for a .50 cal barrel) that is much longer than the barrel would see the ends bend up if the center bore was off?

 

[Little Wattsy]

I'm brain storming.

I wonder if someone was to slide a .50" dowel (for a .50 cal barrel) that is much longer than the barrel would see the ends bend up if the center bore was off?

Good idea...or a laser light?

 

[larry wv]

Have to slide it half way down only. Seems like a good idea if you have good eyes. Larry