Terminology/naming help please

[new2bp]

Really basic.... and stupid question. But we all have our moments right?

Anyway... In general terms

I know what a rifle is. Its got that long tube thing with grooves cut in it (or its been smashed around a twisted hexagon or other twisted polygonal shape). It takes a bullet and puts some spin on it and sends it out, using the spin to stabilize. How much it twists depends on what type of projectiles and their velocity in relation to length, weight, diameter, etc and so on, but that is a whole 'nuther discussion.

And I know what a shotgun is. They have that long tube thing or perhaps a pair of them, and the tube gets a little bit more narrow at the end furthest away from the shooter (choke). It shoots a column of shot that spreads out as it travels away though the smaller it is at the far end of the tube the less it will spread. There are slugs available that stabilize and mostly fly in a straight line by acting like a badmitton birdie - they are hollow at the rear, and the weight forward balance does the rest (and yes, I know this is modern-ish (1900s) Foster style slugs).

So a muzzle loading rifle is a no brainer, and a muzzle loading shotgun is also easy, though I think the only thing close to a "slug" for a muzzle loading shotgun would be a single ball of not quite bore diameter at smallest point (choke constriction) and it would need a lot of patch to get a bore fit down near the powder but that could still cause issues at the choke....

But what defines a "smoothbore" and what makes it different from a shotgun? Is it the presence of rifle like sights and no choke to the barrel? Assume they shoot a basic patched round ball, no real stabilization so nothing to provide spin, so not as accurate as rifle w/ same PRB esp at longer distances? Also from discussions I see they tend to run much larger bore diameters than rifles, hovering around common shotgun gauge sizes (.62, .68, .72, .74)?

So... tell me how wrong I am and give me the straight dope.

 

[smo]

A smoothbore is what the name implies… a smooth bore..

A smoothbore with front & rear sights, I would call smooth rifle..


Accuracy depend a lot on the shooter..

I’m not sure but I think the term shot gun may have came along with the invention of shot shells.

 

[hawkeye2]

A shotgun is a smoothbore and a smoothbore can be a shotgun. A smoothbore generally has a barrel with no choke and the term often refers to a military arm and pistols can be smoothbores too. Of course a shotgun can also be a cylinder bore with no choke like a musket but it's still a shotgun. BTW, the term musket is generally taken to mean a smooth bored military arm. If I haven't got you spinning in circles yet let's move on to smooth rifles. Enjoyed your post.

 

[deerstalkert]

and if you really want to get dizzy name this! rifle shotgun? rifle fowler?

 

[Whitworth]

All smoothbores could be used as shotguns. The choke didn't come around to common use until mid 19th century if you can believe what you read. I did read a mention to an 1827 reference to a duck hunting gunsmith fittingly named Smith with experimenting with a choked bore. Competition shooter and gunsmith named Kimble with spreading it's use. YMMV

 

[Sidney Smith]

When you shoot shot through a smoothbore, shotgun. Shooting a single ball, smoothbore.

 

[ppg1949]

Right or wrong, it was explained to me that a smoothbore shotgun barrel was more a tube shape although a portion in front of the breech could be hexagonal. With generally only a small front bead or sight. Where a smoothbore rifle barrel was hexagonal from breech to muzzle although it could have a small amount of taper. And usually had both front and rear sights.

 

[new2bp]

A shotgun is a smoothbore and a smoothbore can be a shotgun. A smoothbore generally has a barrel with no choke and the term often refers to a military arm and pistols can be smoothbores too. Of course a shotgun can also be a cylinder bore with no choke like a musket but it's still a shotgun. BTW, the term musket is generally taken to mean a smooth bored military arm. If I haven't got you spinning in circles yet let's move on to smooth rifles. Enjoyed your post.

Was aware that Musket was military related term and they were most often un-rifled. And yes, please. Tell me about smooth rifles and how they would differ from what I posted re: smoothbore

and if you really want to get dizzy name this! rifle shotgun? rifle fowler?

Almost drilling. Or Savage 24 predecessor. There are in fact defined names for all of these double/triple barrel variations with one being rifle and the other being shotgun or rifle of different caliber.

Right or wrong, it was explained to me that a smoothbore shotgun barrel was more a tube shape although a portion in front of the breech could be hexagonal. With generally only a small front bead or sight. Where a smoothbore rifle barrel was hexagonal from breech to muzzle although it could have a small amount of taper. And usually had both front and rear sights.

I don't think external barrel profile would affect the definition...

 

[R Ellis]

and if you really want to get dizzy name this! rifle shotgun? rifle fowler?

combination gun I have several of them.

 

[BoomStick]

I've always envisioned a shotgun as a dedicated function. As said above, all shotguns are smoothbore but not all smoothbores are shotguns. They're a subset of smoothies. Purposefully built to fire shot, stock architecture for birding and target shooting.

Muskets also a subset, generally a larger bore military arm. So it seems there are a couple more distinctions within smoothbores.

 

[Ponderosaman]

A smoothbore can be a rifle. I have a repro from my pop. A smoothbore .69 Springfield. It is a better straight shooter than a shotgun because it doesn’t swing like a shotgun, BUT as a turkey gun, could be made serviceable.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

While there are smooth bored firearms called "smooth rifles" the term is a misnomer. A rifle has rifling.​

ri·fle 1​

(rī′fəl)
n.
1.
a. A firearm with a spirally grooved bore, designed to be fired from the shoulder.

 

[smo]

I always thought smooth”rifles were basically built more like a rifle… cheek piece & rear sights included..
Not rifled, but on a rifle style frame..

 

[necchi]

Anyway... In general terms

It's not at all that complicated, don't over think it in modern terms.
It's simply different terms used in different eras of history. And words are used when defining a gun in terms of historical use.
A "brown bess" is a musket right? If you use a shot column in it,, is it a "shot gun"?
Nope, it's still a brown bess musket.

It isn't an evolution of the gun that changed or is defining, it's the language/words and use of those words that have changed.
Ton's of terms have changed in just my lifetime,, Cool/Hot, Bitchin,, sweet/su-weet, etc,,
I always thought a shot gun uses a shot shell,, that's different than a smooth bore, (?)
I do have to agree with you though,, the term "smooth rifle" still confuses me!

 

[beardedhorse]

ppg- the person who explained it to you got it wrong. The flats on a rifle are usually octagonal with eight sides not hexagonal with six. Half octagon-half round barrels were used for fowlers, trade guns and sporting smoothbores.

 

[mushka]

My unmentionable mod. 24 is called an over and under. Rifle over, shotgun under.
A good versatile piece. My only two barreled BP gun is a 20 ga. shotgun side by side. The unmentionable 24 has sights, the shotgun only a bead on the front like most shotguns.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

and if you really want to get dizzy name this! rifle shotgun? rifle fowler?

Hi Stakler. That's called a CAPE GUN or RIFLE. Made for Hunter Gatherer in the Cape of S.Africa or other places with Large Game and Game birds.. O.D.

 

[Rifleman1776]

It's not at all that complicated, don't over think it in modern terms.

Come on now , if we didn't over think things there would be nothing to talk about here.

 

[hanshi]

IMHO they are all the same and are, well, smoothbores. Call them shotguns, muskets, etc, but it's the inside of the barrel that defines them and not some outward appearance. Hence, smoothbore. But you can call them whatever sounds best to you. I use "musket" and smoothbore interchangeably. My smoothbore is the only gun I've ever named (Ol' Loudmouf).

 

[Newtire]

and if you really want to get dizzy name this! rifle shotgun? rifle fowler?

I think they call that a "Cape gun". Heard that they were popular in Africa in the southern cape area where a bird hunter might run into a bigger critter. You use the rifle barrel to wound your partner so as to make him easier for the big critter to mangle or otherwise make him an easier meal.