Terrible accuracy ?!

[Dave11]

I have a Thompson Centre 54 caliber Hawken that I use for moose hunting.
For that purpose I use conical bullets, which it shoots quite well. I can maintain a group of about 3-1/2" at 65 yards.

Lately I thought I would try shooting round balls for this seasons deer hunt.
First I cleaned the bore etc.
A trip to the range the other day was disappointing to say the least.
After zeroing at 25 yards, I tried a few shots at 50 yards, which were barley on the paper, between shots were 12" apart.

I am using Hornady round balls .530" with a .015" patch lubed with wonderlube. One observation is that the balls seem to be quite hard to start in the bore, I have to really force them with the ball starter? they are much tighter than the conicals I shoot.
The other thing is these are really old lead balls that are grey looking in colour like they are oxidized?, not sure if this will affect performance?

I was initially loading 80 grains of Pyrodex, then tried reducing the load down to 70 which didn't seem to help.
Have to admit I have not shot ball and patch much at all, mainly conicals.

Not sure what to try next , any suggestions?

Dave Eddie

 

[Des52]

My .54 TC likes 90 grs 2F goex a .530 ball with a.18 patch. I tried 3f and it don't like it. I have not shot pyrodex in 45 years so can't help you there. I have a Renegade not a Hawken but I don't think the barrels are that different.

 

[CapPopper]

Usually tight shoots pretty good up to the point of using a mallet ..... I have a .50 that shoots one ragged hole with Conicals at 50 yards. Can't do better than 8+ inches with a ball at 50 no matter what I do. Tight or loose large charge or small charge doesn't matter. Sometimes that's just the way it goes. Pretty bad when you're smoothbore shoots balls better than a rifles gun lol

 

[deermanok]

I have a CVA Missouri rifle 54 caliber. 70 grains of 3f Swiss under a .530 ball using a .012 cotton patch.
It will put every ball in about the same hole at 50 yards.
Maybe try a different powder.
Real black if you can get or if not maybe Triple 7 2f.
Those balls are oxidized so be careful handling them. Hand washing highly recommended.

 

[nchawkeye]

It starts with the patch, forget the balls, they are fine...If your patches are preluded, throw them away and go get some pillow ticking, wash it, tear it in strips and lube when you are ready to shoot...There are millions of lubes out there, I've used SnoSeal for years, mink oil, mixtures of bees wax and others are fine as well...But, take that strip of pillow, leave it long, start a ball, push it about 4 inches down the bore and pull it out...Is it torn? If so, you have barrel problems, maybe it's leaded from shooting conicals all those years or maybe its sharp lands...Fix that, then you can work with powder charges and find the sweet spot...

Your patches should look good enough to use again after they are shot...Put a tarp in front of the barrel to catch them as you shoot...This will help in finding them ....

 

[Ames]

Call me dumb. I never had a TC Hawken. All the answers so far are cool, but...what's the twist of your barrel? Is it round ball friendly or made for conicals? You might be beating a dead horse here.
That said, I have some Plains rifles, notorious for tight bores. I found that my 54's like to shoot .52 balls with a .15 patch. With a .18 patch it was erratic to say the least.

 

[Boomerang]

What do your patches look like after they have been shot? If there is any holes in them then that would be one main contributing factor to poor accuracy.

 

[UndeadPoet]

Call me dumb. I never had a TC Hawken. All the answers so far are cool, but...what's the twist of your barrel? Is it round ball friendly or made for conicals? You might be beating a dead horse here.
That said, I have some Plains rifles, notorious for tight bores. I found that my 54's like to shoot .52 balls with a .15 patch. With a .18 patch it was erratic to say the least.

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say he probably has a 1:48” twist. Unless he has a custom barrel.

 

[Dave11]

Tks Folks,
All good suggestions, I will measure the twist rate and report back.

Dave

 

[SDSmlf]

If it’s a 54 T/C Hawken, the barrel will be 1-48 unless it’s marked 1-66 for roundball.

I have quite a few 54 T/Ca and they are all very user friendly with roundballs. As suggested, start with patch material, then check muzzle crown.

 

[R Ellis]

Mine shoots great with real black 490 ball and 010 patch

 

[SwanShot]

My 54 Renagade responded very well to A lubed wad over the powder. Halved my group size, using 535 balls. I have no idea what patch thickness, but it starts with a solid bump by the heel of my hand

 

[brotherlloyd]

I have a Thompson Centre 54 caliber Hawken that I use for moose hunting.
For that purpose I use conical bullets, which it shoots quite well. I can maintain a group of about 3-1/2" at 65 yards.

Lately I thought I would try shooting round balls for this seasons deer hunt.
First I cleaned the bore etc.
A trip to the range the other day was disappointing to say the least.
After zeroing at 25 yards, I tried a few shots at 50 yards, which were barley on the paper, between shots were 12" apart.

I am using Hornady round balls .530" with a .015" patch lubed with wonderlube. One observation is that the balls seem to be quite hard to start in the bore, I have to really force them with the ball starter? they are much tighter than the conicals I shoot.
The other thing is these are really old lead balls that are grey looking in colour like they are oxidized?, not sure if this will affect performance?

I was initially loading 80 grains of Pyrodex, then tried reducing the load down to 70 which didn't seem to help.
Have to admit I have not shot ball and patch much at all, mainly conicals.

Not sure what to try next , any suggestions?

Dave Eddie

watch idaho lewis youtube

 

[COTNTOP]

I started with .530 balls, 18 ticking and 60gr GOEX and my 54 renegade seemed to out perform me.

 

[morehops52]

I tried various combos of ball and patch many years ago for my T/C 50 Hawken. Results were not to my standards. Then I discovered maxis which shoot well in all my rifles. It ain't broke so I ain't fixing it.

 

[longcruise]

It starts with the patch, forget the balls, they are fine...If your patches are preluded, throw them away and go get some pillow ticking, wash it, tear it in strips and lube when you are ready to shoot...There are millions of lubes out there, I've used SnoSeal for years, mink oil, mixtures of bees wax and others are fine as well...But, take that strip of pillow, leave it long, start a ball, push it about 4 inches down the bore and pull it out...Is it torn? If so, you have barrel problems, maybe it's leaded from shooting conicals all those years or maybe its sharp lands...Fix that, then you can work with powder charges and find the sweet spot...

Your patches should look good enough to use again after they are shot...Put a tarp in front of the barrel to catch them as you shoot...This will help in finding them ....

This!

You can try everyone else's "pet loads" all day long and will almost certainly will see very little if any improvement in your results.

You have been shooting conicals and I'm assuming a lot of conicals. So, question, have you ever done anything to mitigate leading? If you have, are you sure that it worked?

Your problems are almost certainly related to bore and/or muzzle crown condition. Until you solve the problem(s) you are on a never ending turd hunt known as "load development" or "working up a load". It's pointless until your gun is ready.

 

[dave951]

Unless you develop a methodology in load development, you'll be spinning your wheels by polling the group. You may get some insight, but you'll have to buckle down and change one variable at the time to determine what really works in your gun.

 

[Artificer]

I was initially loading 80 grains of Pyrodex, then tried reducing the load down to 70 which didn't seem to help.
Have to admit I have not shot ball and patch much at all, mainly conicals.

Not sure what to try next , any suggestions?

Dave Eddie

Dave,

The very first time I shot my brand new .50 TC Hawken in January 1972, I had only slightly recovered from Walking Pneumonia about 9 days earlier. I used everything in the TC accessories kit and my Grandpa helped me cast the balls. Dad and I used a 25 yard measuring tape four times to get 100 yards distance to plant the target. I brushed off most of the snow off the ground, took up an excellent sitting position and shot between gusts of wind when it was 10 degrees Fahrenheit. I had just finished Marine Corps Boot Camp with some of the finest marksmanship training in the world. At 100 yards, no ball was more than 1 5/8 inches from the others, so the group was well under 2 inches in those bad conditions and my still not fully recovered physical condition. I was HOOKED, though decided to end shooting for the day. Later on when I tailored the load better for the rifle, I was getting around 1 inch three shot groups from the bench, sitting or prone positions.

I was using fffg Dupont black powder and the recommended 60 grain by volume load for that initial firing.

I have never used Pyrodex, so I looked up the following chart:

If I'm reading the chart correctly and if the chart is accurate, your load of 80 grains of Pyrodex seems way too much for a .54 cal. TC round ball. Perhaps someone else more familiar with Pyrodex can check this info?

Gus

 

[burlesontom]

Your patches should look good enough to use again after they are shot...Put a tarp in front of the barrel to catch them as you shoot...This will help in finding them ....

Patches were my problem when I got my first gun. I had no one to help mr so I bought the Black Powder manual written by Sam Fadala. And he talked about patches. I started off with a Cabelas starter kit that had .010 thick patches. When I could find them they were all but burned up. Fadala suggested using Hornets nest under the ball for a firewall. I don't play well with hornets or wasp.

So I just used a ball patch below my patched ball. I also went to thicker patch material. I use pillow ticking from WM that I wash first. Now I get tight groups and when I find my ball patch they are in such good of shape they could probably be reused. When I find the firewall patch they are pretty well burned up. I haven't tried the felt wad under a ball yet but I will try it one day.

 

[bang]

Should not have to use a lot of force to start PRB. Try .012 or .010 patch. I find accuracy is best with a combination that I can press it in with my thumb.
If conical shoots good you may have a faster twist than would be good for a PRB.
TCs 1:48 is about as fast as you can get for PRB and miniball. My first TC in 45 would put 8 of 10 PRBs in bull at 100 yards off a bench.
I would try 60 -75 grains and thinner patch.
Check the muzzle crown for sharp edges that may be tearing the patch if accuracy doesn't improve.
I use a mix of wax and veggie oil at 75% wax to 25% veggie oil. The wax keeps fouling softer than other lubes I've tried.
I've used Pyrodex for over 25 years and have been able to find loads that work.
Try fresh batch of balls. Might be possible the oxidation got deed enough on parts of them to be unbalanced.