Thanks to Hodgdon

[Don Steele]

:hatsoff:
I wanted to post up a big THANK YOU to the good folks at Hodgdon and provide some reality for folks who might be interested.
My gun club: Port Malabar Rifle and Pistol Club in Palm Bay, FL has held a "Range Safety Expo" for the last 2 years. Our facilities include a dedicated BP range among others. For the Expo..we have a few volunteers at each range providing folks with the opportunity to see and experience the variety of shooting sports enjoyed at the club. I volunteer at the Blackpowder range where we invite folks to step up and learn to load and shoot a traditional muzzleloader and patched roundball. For this event, Hodgdon has donated several pounds of their BP substitute product "Triple 7".
Like many here I shoot genuine Blackpowder and have stayed away from substitutes. That said, we have a lot of folks come on this forum who are new to shooting traditional muzzleloaders, and have no idea where to get genuine BP. I thought a bit of personal experience rather than "internet opinion" might be helpful to them.
At the recent Expo...I gave the Triple 7 a try in my T/C caplock. This is one of my hunting rifles, and I know it well.
In doing so I learned that Hodgdon's Triple 7 loads just like my Goex. My measure is set to throw 65 gns Goex. I filled it with Triple 7 and shot after shot went to the same p.o.i. as Goex does at 25 and 50 yds. VERY little fouling was evident between shots. After the event, cleanup (using the same procedure I have followed for 40 yrs with Goex) was easier. I got to "snow white patches" faster.
One other point to make...some of our members who are stalwart fans of genuine blackpowder were under the impression that Triple 7 "goes bad with age". When describing the great results I was getting, one guy had to warn me: "well, I won't use that stuff because it spoils in storage".
I reminded him that a lot of what I was using that day was some of the Triple 7 that had been donated the year before...not just the current product we had just received.
As is often the case when myths are busted....Truth was met with "grumbling"...but no facts. I have no dog in this hunt other than to THANK Hodgdon for their support of our sport and to make a fair report of my experience. I'm still a dedicated blackpowder shooter but won't hesitate to use Hodgdon's Triple 7 in my caplock if I ever find myself in a situation where it's all that's available.

 

[coloradoclyde]

IF I remember correctly, Hodgdon owns Goex....

I have never had an issue with Pyrodex or Triple seven going bad. This summer I even left the lid off a can of 777 on my loading bench for about two weeks (accidentally)..It still works just fine.
Triple 777 is a great substitute for Pyrodex and other substitutes, but since it too doesn't work in a flintlock, Real black powder remains in a class of it's own.

 

[Spikebuck]

Don,

Great comments on Triple 7. In my cappers, it was my favorite powder. I also found that my Rocky Mountain Hawken shot exactly the same POI with Triple 7 2F or Kik 2F or Goex 2F. Also, have never had it go bad. When I went to all blackpowder, even in the cappers, I had Triple 7 that sat for several years. We used it up in my wife's BP Revolver with nary any issues at all.

A great black powder substitute. :thumbsup:

 

[mooman76]

I picked up a can of 777 about 5 years ago or so just to try. Have yet to try it though. I also bought some Black MZ and haven't tried it either. Some day I'll get to these projects I have planned.

 

[robinsroost]

I have tried 777 in my 1858 New Army and in my 50 caliber Hawken replica, and my 32 caliber Crockett, with no problems. The point of aim was the same as 3Fg. Clean up was no more difficult than real BP. Keep yer powder dry........robin :hmm:

 

[smo]

I have no doubts that some of the subs work great.

I just haven’t trusted using them since I screwed up the rifling in a .50 cal. TC Hawken with bore butter coated Buffalo Bullets back in the early 80’s.

 

[BrownBear]

...one guy had to warn me: "well, I won't use that stuff because it spoils in storage".
I reminded him that a lot of what I was using that day was some of the Triple 7 that had been donated the year before...not just the current product we had just received.
As is often the case when myths are busted....Truth was met with "grumbling"...but no facts.

Yeah, there's a lot of horse feathers floating around. Here's hoping the poor guy was just confusing it with American Pioneer and Shlocky's Shlock and not a complete idiot.

My one-time hunting pard was a fan, and when he moved south for health he was forced to leave me with his stock since the movers wouldn't move it. I inherited an open jug each of Triple Seven 2f and 3f, along with a dozen or so more unopened jugs. As an experiment in our challenging super-wet climate, I've only loaded a couple of shots a year out of those opened jugs and chronographed the shots, just to check for and track any detrioration. Zip, zero, nada. They ignite the same as new jugs opened for each annual shoot and the chronograph hasn't got the word yet about deterioration.

Did I fail to mention that my bud moved away 8 years ago, and the stuff is still good? :thumbsup:

 

[Rat Trapper]

I prefer T7 for hunting and have had no problems with it going bad either.

 

[dragnetbill]

Since Pyrodex has been mentioned I will chime in; have never tried Triple 7, but the "it will go bad in storage" warning sounds the same as Pyrodex.
I have seen bad Pyrodex once at the range when a gentleman who hadn't been out in years was shootin his Hawken. He loaded and fired and things just did'nt sound right. The "my two cents worth(s)" started coming from along the line. He was using Pyrodex RS and I asked to see it; about half of the grandules had turned a brownish color; it sure did'nt look right. I don't recall any mention of how it had been stored.
On the other hand a couple of years ago (September) I was using Pyrodex RS from a funnel topped factory bottle after forgetting my horn. The range rules don't allow loading at the bench from the factory canisters. There is a wooden box on the outside of the Range Officer's building where the canister must be placed. When you invision this storge box think very temporary shelter at the minimum of expense.
The next time I wanted to use that Pyrodex I couldn't find it anywhere in the arsenel of clutter. It was now the following September plus a week or two. I arrived at the range and was grousing to the range officer about my diorganization and inability to find this bottle of Pyrodex that I know I must still have, he points at the storage box and says "Been one in there for a year."
Sure enough, there it is. I inspected it and it appeared normal in appearance and shot just as it had the year before. Go figure; basically outside for a whole year in Michigan. I don't know what is more surprising, that it didn't go bad or that someone didn't take it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Good post and good info from experience. :applause:
Personally, I have almost no experience with sub powders.
Fortunately, I have a good supply of real bp and may never have to resort to subs. But, your report may steer me to 777 if that day ever comes.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Before I Could Regularly Get Real powder, I Was Using Triple Seven Kn A gluntlock, But Started With 7 Grains Of Goex 3f In The The Barrel first. Some 3f in the pan and no problems.

 

[Spikebuck]

Here's hoping the poor guy was just confusing it with American Pioneer and Shlocky's Shlock and not a complete idiot.

:rotf: Don't even get me going on that stuff! They must pay Shockey a LOT of money to discredit himself by promoting it. :td: I keep forgetting to just dump out the two pounds of it I have to make shelf space for something useful.

 

[excess650]

Years back I bought a 1# container of (new then) Black Canyon. I opened it and observed it looked about like fine gravel, and loaded a few 45-70s from light to fully compressed. The container remained closed in my basement for about 6 months before I opened it again. It was a single, solid lump. I cut the container to removed the lump and deposited it in my shrubbery. It was still there several months later despite being rained on.

 

[Zonie]

I'm happy to hear someone else has tried Black Canyon powder. :rotf:

This is one of the oldest ascorbic acid based black powder substitutes and a number of years ago I was at the shooting range and a guy offered to give me several pounds of it in sealed plastic bottles.
He said someone had given it to him and he didn't like it. :hmm:

Not wanting to be rude and being the kind of guy who doesn't look gift horses in the mouth, I thanked him and took it.

After he had left, I tried my freebie powder.
It seemed to lack power and it also caused several misfires so I screwed the cap back on the bottle and shot the other powder I had brought with me.

About 6 months later I opened the bottle.
The little bit of humidity we have here in Phoenix, often being less than 8%, had turned the granulation's into a rock hard lump. :shocked2:

Both bottles of the stuff went into the garbage can. :td:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Imagine if companies took all their time, energy, and money spent trying to make and market BP substitutes and just made real BP with it......

Production would be safe, cheap, and plentiful....
and we'd all be happier.....

 

[Zonie]

Well, I think some of it is man's wish to try to improve things.

The substitutes are also a way to get around the "explosives" situation black powder gets.

If the powder is just a combustible, shipping costs less, it can be on a shelf in a store rather than being locked away in a box and paranoid laws against "explosives" don't apply to it.

Then, the idea of inventing a powder that works in muzzleloaders but doesn't leave corrosive fouling appeals to some. Especially the lazy ones that don't want to take the time to clean their dirty guns. :shake:

Maybe someday someone will come up with a substitute powder that works well in a flintlock, has power and maybe even some good old fashioned "rotton eggs" smell.

In the meantime, let's hope black powder will be available to everyone.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Great to hear of their support and involvement in your event. Now if they could only make a substitute with a low enough flash point that it would reliably work in flintlocks.

I actually got some 777 to work a few times many years ago in my flintlock whereas Pyrodex never worked in it. By comparison, real black powder always works in my flintlock and I found a supplier about 6-miles from where I lived.

Twisted_1in66
Dan