the dangers of lead

[Matt85]

my mothers got a coe-worker who is starting to get on my nerves. he is a self proclaimed muzzleloading expert who keeps telling her that handling lead is gonna kill me... i keep explaining to her that leads onley dangerous if you either get it too hot (fumes) or get it in your mouth. but this jerk keeps trying to convince her that lead absorbs threw the skin. :cursing:

any one know where i could find some good data to prove to my poor mother that this stuff isnt going to kill me just from handling it?

-matt

 

[M. De Land]

Have her talk to her doc about it, I'm sure he can allay her fears. MD

 

[TFoley]

Have her talk to her doc about it, I'm sure he can allay her fears. MD

So can any health-and safety in the workplace inspector.

Sure, lead CAN be a problem, and used to be so, as it is accumulative in the body. Persons at high risk of lead poisoning were plumbers, makers of ladies facial potions [yup, white lead], those engaged in the automobile battery manufacturing trade and others where large amounts of lead in one form or another were part of the daily handling or breathing.

I've missed out, BTW, those for whom lead, fast-moving and in relatively small amounts, can be lethally dangerous - persons in the Armed Forces and law enforcement.

Many of us here handling lead, maybe every week, take the usual precautions about handling any potentially dangerous or health-threatening substance. Most, like me, do their casting either out in the open door of their shop/garage, or have a well-ventilated workplace. We wash our hands after handling the stuff, even though while casting, we've been wearing protective gloves [haven't we?].

Like many here, I've been casting bullets and ball for many years, probably 40+, and apart from going bald, nothing except my hair seems to have fallen off.

Take the usual precautions and you'll be fine. Just don't go sawing or grinding lead and then inhaling it or chomping down the odd spoonful of lead dust and all will be well.

tac

 

[Bill Hall]

Matt, I once found an online link from a fishing forum that gave real medical information on lead hazards, myths, and common sense when casting, but I'll be dogged if I can find it now. It mostly explained that with proper ventilation, not over heating the lead, and washing any skin that comes into contact with the lead, you will be fine. I suggest keep searching the web for a site like that one.

By the way, it did bust the myth that spilling water onto molten lead will not cause an explosion. It's only a problem when it gets under the lead. I've been telling people this for many years, but some still swear that a drop of sweat falling into the pot will cause the lead to blow up in your face. Oh well :idunno: . Bill

 

[BullRunBear]

I'm curious as to how the "expert" avoids the lead danger when he shoots. (Assuming he actually shoots MLs.) I despise people offering profound, ex cathedra, statements about things they've overheard.

There should be plenty of information online to allay her fears. Good luck!

Jeff

PS: According to this guy, many of us on this forum should be dead or dying. Somehow, we're doing fine.

 

[swathdiver]

I've been fishing and shooting all my life and even bite down on sinkers and hold a cast net with my teeth! GASP!!! Hey, how come I ain't dead yet from when Wally stuck with that pencil in 1st grade? You can still see the lead tip under my skin after all these years.

Sounds like a foolish man. :yakyak:

 

[Many Klatch]

I have been shooting muzzleloaders for over 30 years. I have been known to hold a couple of 20 gauge ball in my mouth for faster loading and I cast all my roundball. So I have had plenty of exposure.

A few years ago as part of my annual medical checkup I had them check my blood for signs of lead. None was found.

Many Klatch

 

[fleener]

You sure that lead tip is not really graphite?

Lead ingested and inhaled is where the dangers are. Think small particles like dust. Wash your hands after handling lead


Fleener

 

[Rat Trapper]

Would you expect anything better to come out of the mouth of a liberal city person? As long as you do not make a habit of eating the lead and have good venting when casting you will be just fine.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Actually I think lead oxide is more of the culprit, and lead fumes. Lead in paint is actually lead oxide. Lead dust in old firing ranges, especially old indoor police ranges, again the tiny fragments oxidize. Plumbers, well they used to braze lead pipe, and used lead based solder on copper pipe..., lead fumes. Cut a lead pipe with a hacksaw, all those little bits are created by the saw teeth, and if they stay on the plumber's clothing long enough, they oxidize, and then it's easy for the plumber to get that in food. Bare hands on oxidized pipe, then eat your lunch...

We leave lead bullets and fragments in shooting victims all the time when surgery would cause more problems than fix. It's extremely rare that a person develops elevated lead levels from the foreign objects.

LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

According to this guy, many of us on this forum should be dead or dying. Somehow, we're doing fine.

Actually handling lead slows down brain function to the point where reason stops to exist. From observing most of us on this forum, I'm sure that is correct. :shocked2: :youcrazy: :rotf:

 

[necchi]

There are industries that have workers handle lead on a daily basis. Construction of X-ray rooms, roofers, plumbers, artisans, bullet makers, metal forging plants.
Just Google Lead handling safety.

Last paragraph page 1;
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg305.pdf
http://www.leadsheetassociation.org.uk/assets/files/LSAHealthBrochure.pdf

Lead is a heavy metal, it will not enter the human body through osmosis, dangers include inhalation and ingestion. Normal hygiene during handling and after will prevent all contamination.
Wash your hands and use a damp cloth to wipe down the area.
Drinking water is purified with Reverse Osmosis to remove lead. Proving lead does not transverse through osmosis.

Like you it yanks my chain when folks use myth and misinformation to sway peoples ideas and opinion. I would take a direct route and go to my Mothers employ and confront this guy myself.
Chances are he's a in-line shooter and was "sold" the idea of sabots.
Once presented with the facts he'd probably just laugh and say OK, you go ahead and do it,, I won't.

 

[Eljay]

I would think a lead test would "prove" the issue more than anything else. I get one done every few years - basically if they're testing my cholesterol or something, and if I think of it, I say, oh, I'm due to get my lead tested and they add it in. So that way it's no extra hassle, and I can verify that the usual protocols are working (washing hands etc.).

 

[Rifleman1776]

By the way, it did bust the myth that spilling water onto molten lead will not cause an explosion. It's only a problem when it gets under the lead. I've been telling people this for many years, but some still swear that a drop of sweat falling into the pot will cause the lead to blow up in your face

Like you and most others, I have long believed the adage about a drop of water into molten lead. If it is not so, I would like to see the authentic source of that debunking. I do not plan to test the notion one way or the other. But 'real' facts are always of interest.

 

[bpd303]

When tempering springs, I routinely take the spring from the water quench and when still wet plunge it into molten lead to temper it. Never have an explosion of lead, but a lot of sizzling from the water as it evaporates.

 

[George T.]

Well here is my 2 cents worth. In fact I have posted a time or three about being careful when casting and touching lead. Back fourty years ago I cast balls and bullets in several sizes. I also loaded hundreds of shotgun shells a month and reloaded pistol ammo in several calibers.

During this time I was also raising young children. So when the NRA started a long series of articals in the late 60's early 70's I paid attention. This has been reinforced since but here is what I remember.

Lead or heavy metal is a greater danger to young people when their brains are developing. It can be injested or breathed in. These articals put the spotlight on washing hands very well any time it was handled. Heck I used to eat while casting. Your home or shop can also be contaminated with lead dust. The clean up can be a tough job.

You need air flow and/or ventelation when casting also if the lead gets to hot it gives off much more vapor. I wash my hands a lot and although I still have my casting equipment I now buy balls and bullets.

Shooters as a group tend to be macho and laugh off this kind of warning. But this next fact is a true story. A good friend in central retired on disability from the Austin police force. He went into the cast bullet business and within five years he had severe brain damage ending in a full time care facility before dieing.

Another friend bought shot making machines. He was smart enough to have his blood lead levels checked. Within 18 months he hit the max allowable levels and sold his equipment. These tests are a possiability and reasonably cheap.

Just Saying! Take care all! Geo. T.

 

[trent/OH]

Actually handling lead slows down brain function to the point where reason stops to exist. From observing most of us on this forum, I'm sure that is correct. :shocked2: :youcrazy: :rotf:

Har dee

har



har







har

 

[Bill Hall]

Rifleman, perhaps a slight misunderstanding here, I have NEVER believed that water poured onto molten lead will cause it to gush up. This comes from years of experience casting sinkers and balls, but mostly it comes from my experience as a plumber. Sometimes after pouring and cocking lead joints, I had to go to another site, so I would pour water onto the molten lead to harden it, then keep gradually pouring water to cool down the pot enough to throw on the truck. Every plumber does this from time to time. (My dad could wet his finger and stick in the pot for a second. Won a lot of beer that way :grin: )

But there is a real danger of lead blowing up when coming into contact with water, otherwise this myth wouldn't exist. The problem is when water gets UNDER the molten lead. And I have heard of explosions from sweat dripping into muffins molds just before the lead hit. That makes sense. Wet chunks of lead dropped into a pot full of molten lead will blow up every time. The only time I had a pot blow up on me was when some moisture somehow got trapped under the hard lead, then worked its way up as the lead melted. It made a little geyser of lead, so I ran backwards just in time to see the lead get painted all over my house walls and the bottom of my eaves. Rain, no matter how hard, will not cause a lead pot to explode, unless the ladle gets wet and is dipped into the pot, or something similar.

I don't know of any authentic source, I think the only way to dispell this myth would be to show someone in person. I've often thought about posting a youtube video with me pouring water onto molten lead. Maybe someday when I get some technical help.

Water ON lead is fine, water IN lead goes BOOM! Bill

 

[M. De Land]

I've had two lead explosions and it happened both times with sprue remelting that got wet from rain while casting out side. Just didn't think the light mist would make the sprues wet enough to cause a steam explosion the first time and I don't know how I got one wet the second time as I was keeping them dry I thought. True, it is the steam that causes this when a bit of water gets submerged in molten lead after being trapped in a fold or wrinkle. Believe you me, it will empty your pot instantly and both times I was saved by the protective equipment I was wearing. Hot lead all down the front of my apron and tops of my shoes. I've been casting balls and bullets for over 40 years now and don't ever plan on a repeat as I just won't cast with any kind of precipitation falling anymore. MD

 

[Zonie]

Matt

The United States Department of Labor on the Occupational Safety and Health Adminstration (OHSA) has this to say about absorbing pure lead directly thru the skin:

"II. HEALTH HAZARD DATA

...Lead can be absorbed into your body by inhalation (breathing) and ingestion (eating). Lead (except for certain organic lead compounds not covered by the standard, such as tetraethyl lead) is not absorbed through your skin. When lead is scattered in the air as a dust, fume or mist it can be inhaled and absorbed through you lungs and upper respiratory tract. Inhalation of airborne lead is generally the most important source of occupational lead absorption. You can also absorb lead through your digestive system if lead gets into your mouth and is swallowed. If you handle food, cigarettes, chewing tobacco, or make-up which have lead on them or handle them with hands contaminated with lead, this will contribute to ingestion."

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=10031&p_table=STANDARDS

Run a copy of this report and highlight the area quoted.
Give the copy to your mother and suggest that the next time this "expert" tells her something she needs to consider the source before she starts believing what he says.