The Eras Gone Johnston and Dow wins

[BillinOregon]

I had a chance to shoot a group each with the Eras Gone Johnston and Dow and the Eras Gone Kerr in my Uberti 1860 fluted-cylinder .44 this afternoon. I had hand-lubed them by rubbing an SPG clone into the lube grooves -- only one on the Johnston and Dow. The latter bullet was pretty fiddly to get into the cylinder mouth because of its longer nose, and I had to be careful to keep that nose below the mouth of each chamber. The stubby little Kerr was much easier to handle and seat. I fired the groups from 25 yards rest over my chronograph. The load consisted of 22 grains by weight of Triple 7 FFF, sparked by ancient CCI No. 11 caps given a pinch to stay on the nipples. Oddly, the Kerr, just two grains lighter than the Johnston and Dow at 226 grains, gave a higher average velocity of 826 fps than the J&D at 801 fps. But the Kerr also gave me a five-inch-plus group vs. the 2 3/4-inch group yielded by the J&D. Both groups were about 11-12 inches above the point of aim -- common in my experience with the Colt open tops.
I'll shoot more groups in the near future, but at this point, it is pretty clear my Uberti prefers the Johnston and Dow over both the Kerr and the round ball. And to keep things in perspective, the J&D is virtually duplicating the muzzle velocity and speed of John Browning's .45 ACP.
This was my first outing with this Uberti 1860. It is rather stiff -- perhaps the famous arbor issue -- and sucked a few caps.
Kudos to Jefferson Arsenal for selling me 30 each of the J&D and Kerr for this purpose, and of course to Mark Hubbs of Eras Gone for bringing molds for these historic bullets to the market.

Here's the Kerr on the left and Johnston and Dow on the right.

 

[45D]

I had a chance to shoot a group each with the Eras Gone Johnston and Dow and the Eras Gone Kerr in my Uberti 1860 fluted-cylinder .44 this afternoon. I had hand-lubed them by rubbing an SPG clone into the lube grooves -- only one on the Johnston and Dow. The latter bullet was pretty fiddly to get into the cylinder mouth because of its longer nose, and I had to be careful to keep that nose below the mouth of each chamber. The stubby little Kerr was much easier to handle and seat. I fired the groups from 25 yards rest over my chronograph. The load consisted of 22 grains by weight of Triple 7 FFF, sparked by ancient CCI No. 11 caps given a pinch to stay on the nipples. Oddly, the Kerr, just two grains lighter than the Johnston and Dow at 226 grains, gave a higher average velocity of 826 fps than the J&D at 801 fps. But the Kerr also gave me a five-inch-plus group vs. the 2 3/4-inch group yielded by the J&D. Both groups were about 11-12 inches above the point of aim -- common in my experience with the Colt open tops.
I'll shoot more groups in the near future, but at this point, it is pretty clear my Uberti prefers the Johnston and Dow over both the Kerr and the round ball. And to keep things in perspective, the J&D is virtually duplicating the muzzle velocity and speed of John Browning's .45 ACP.
This was my first outing with this Uberti 1860. It is rather stiff -- perhaps the famous arbor issue -- and sucked a few caps.
Kudos to Jefferson Arsenal for selling me 30 each of the J&D and Kerr for this purpose, and of course to Mark Hubbs of Eras Gone for bringing molds for these historic bullets . . .

Yap, that's pretty cool!! Trip 7 powder is excellent in these revolvers! I switched to it when it first came out and it's all I used for the rest of my bp shooting days.
I looked up the equivalent load to see what probable pressures would be and it seems about 13,000 psi can get those numbers. That's pretty remarkable with loose powder!!

Mike

 

[Phil Coffins]

I always enjoy reading facts and data rather than opinions. Subjects that start with “I think, maybe, what if and such” has no appeal to me. So thank you for stating names and numbers!

 

[nkbj]

Nice testing!

 

[nkbj]

Looked through Accurate Molds' catalog for adaptable designs. And realized that seeing as Tom can tweak the diameters to individual orders...
There's hundreds of useful designs!

 

[BillinOregon]

Nkbj, and Tom is happy to cut you a mold of your own design, heeled or otherwise.

 

[nkbj]

Hi Bill.
Yes sir, Tom has made three rifle molds for me per my designs. He does really nice work.

About doing a .45 caliber molds for .44 percussion revolvers, he has so many currently existing designs there that the base could be done with a reduced diameter to suit the chambers... there's just bunches and bunches to choose from.

 

[Smokerr]

Agreed on great data. Unfortunately guns are isolationists, they don't follow what another gun does though often it gets a ballpark. Some run off in left field by themselves.

The lubes are a mystery to me as yet, what is an SPG let alone a clone? Always willing to try something to see how it does.

With our current colder temp I load up the guns in advance and not using wads either as some thought it might affect the powder sitting for X days (no more than 5).

It would be interesting to repeat your test without the lube. Granted I am the chamber seals with the bullet and going with lubes or wads is does it help it shoot more accurately.

I have not used lube and the JD I got shoot worse than the balls in 3 guns. I am saving the JD I have left for the incoming Walker to test in that.

 

[BillinOregon]

Smokerr, I have no idea what effect the lube might have had on accuracy. What I used was White Label "Swiss" BPCR lube which I find very similar to the well-regarded SPG (developed decades ago by Steven P Garbe, national champion BPCR shooter par excellence). I simply thought it a good idea, in combination with the Triple7, to keep fouling management easy.
I will do some more exhaustive tests with the Kerr, Johnston and Dow and Speer swaged round balls here soon when the weather warms back up and I can find a capper that works on the Colt; the Tedd Cash snail capper wouldn't fit and it would have made a great "fail" Youtube watching me fumble those caps on with my fat old fingers.

 

[Smokerr]

Thank you, I feel your finger pain! I look forward to your reports.

I am still working up how to log results. I am used to 5 shot groups in the rifle and those are 1 inch and less, the Pistols are all over the place (so far) - I have numbered cylinders on the Pietta I have the two spares for and color coding the bolt recess on the cylinders so I can lot chambers just to see if one is consistently bad.

I am in the same boat temp wise but I do have some help as the Range has a Shed that has heaters above the benches. It helps though far enough away its not like its warm.

And the range has a policy on what can go on the shooting bench (caps) and powder has to be on the back seats on the bench.

I have not seen a loading stand I like so have to load the guns with their built in rammers (and you can't handle a gun of course in a cease fire)

I also have to remove the cylinders (which is where the ROA rammer went a flying not to be seen again until at least spring if ever turned in)

I have a Colt 47 on the way and those are not fast to get the cylinder off so will have to talk to the range guys first. The NMA (2) and the Ruger (annoying but not that slow) can get cylinders removed. Less so with the Colt type.

Just not much in the line of BP revolver shooters here so they are not defined on how the rules apply (and I am all for the rules, no issue with that).

Two trips ago a guy told me I was doing it wrong. Ok, I asked but ....... Now I know but one of the other guys said he had the same issue and the so called Blue Line (no Blue Lines anywhere at the range?????????????)

The rifle muzzle loaders they have sorted but the pistol part the only covered area is inside the shed and you need some cover, so now its ok at the back of the shed. Cool. Now, Howas about that Colt?

 

[BillinOregon]

Smokerr, I had not noticed you are in Alaska. Here in west central Texas it is 28 degrees this morning with a wind chill of 17 -- dang cold for these parts, but would probably be a balmy day in your neck of the woods. Those are some unusual range rules you are dealing with but it is what it is.
My 1860 is the usual model except for the fully fluted cylinders, a feature of the earliest part of the production run and often associated with Ben McCulloch and the Texas Rangers, as Sam Colt slipped his friend an order just as the North's sanctions shut down most commerce with the Confederate states. Reminiscent of the Walkers, a number of these early cylinders failed and the vast majority of the model run of 200,500 pistols featured the fully round cylinders most of us are familiar with. The fluting does remove some weight and in my opinion makes for a livelier-handling and even more handsome revolver.

 

[Whitworth]

FWIW most of the Civil War pistol bullets I've dug and seen have been .44 Johnston and Dow. It's a handsome bullet to boot after being nicely aged in the ground for 150 years.

 

[Bad Karma]

These from Accurate Molds are a bit heavier but they work well in my colts and Rugers…the first one is a 200 grain bullet and works really well in the shorter barreled Colts.

 

[smokeum54]

These from Accurate Molds are a bit heavier but they work well in my colts and Rugers…the first one is a 200 grain bullet and works really well in the shorter barreled Colts.

View attachment 295751View attachment 295752View attachment 295753View attachment 295754View attachment 295755

I've been looking at a few of those molds. Really like the wide flat nose. Just haven't decided which one to get first.

 

[Bad Karma]

It’s a balancing act… but the 245 cast of 30:1 alloy is soft enough to work in a cap and ball revolver and hard enough to penetrate well even at the relatively low velocities you can expect. I’m looking for a Dragoon solely for that bullet. I think it might allow 40 grains of 3f T7 which would really boot that big bullet in the rear…

 

[smokeum54]

It’s a balancing act… but the 245 cast of 30:1 alloy is soft enough to work in a cap and ball revolver and hard enough to penetrate well even at the relatively low velocities you can expect. I’m looking for a Dragoon solely for that bullet. I think it might allow 40 grains of 3f T7 which would really boot that big bullet in the rear…

I was probably going to start with the 195 or 200 gr mold first. Lee conicals do alright but I've had pretty good accuracy with 200gr 45 REAL bullets in a few of my 58's. They seem to like the short fat design.

 

[Smokerr]

Smokerr, I had not noticed you are in Alaska. Here in west central Texas it is 28 degrees this morning with a wind chill of 17 -- dang cold for these parts, but would probably be a balmy day in your neck of the woods. Those are some unusual range rules you are dealing with but it is what it is.

Mr D also hails from Alaska. And as he can attest, it can be pretty wild. We saw -24 a few weeks back and then the other night we hit 49. It all has to do with our proximity (or not) to the Gulf of Alaska, storm direction (comes inland or shaves the coast and nothing gets over the mountains.) Throw in Alaska is so huge its got 5 major geographical/weather areas and you can sub divide that as the Coast in South Central is a lot different than just over the first mountains.

The range rules are not too uncommon, but they don't account for BP revolvers particularly.

The range guys have a tough job, its a State range and they have to be polite even when people act like idiots (and early on I had a few of those myself though less idiots and early conditioning to shooting in gravel pits. I do my level best to not make their job any harder. Sometimes I assist as someone has just not got it and sometimes you turn over to the Range Officer as you need an authority figure.

They work hard to talk it out and explain and not have a blow up, saw one guy get sent home one day, just belligerent.

 

[BillinOregon]

I've been to Alaska only once. We flew into Juneau from Seattle then hopped down to Wrangell for a few days' fly-fishing on a tributary near the mouth of the Stikine. It's simply a spectacular state, and I only saw the southern foot. Used to buy the "Milepost" back when first obsessed with Alaska starting in high school days. We had occasional sub-zero snow storms when I lived in Eastern Oregon but they were the exception, not the rule.
BK, I am a big fan of Tom's molds and have one on the way for an unmentionable. If I were looking for a non-traditional hunting bullet for my 1860, it would probably be the "Kaido" bullet.

 

[Smokerr]

We refer to it as the Panhandle, Norther Rainforest and grizzly bear heaven!.

The guides have moved from large caliber magnums as the backup gun to the Lever Action with a hard cast bullet.

Lewis and Clark made it across and back withe Rifled muzzle loaders (and a pneumatic rifle) and a lot of people fed themselves off those type guns.

 

[Cubreac]

When working up your loads, do you check to see if the diameter of the chambers in the cylinder match the diameter of the bore? Does it matter?