The errant ball.

[Grandpa Ron]

I do a lot of smooth bore shooting and occasionally I encounter what is often called a “flyer”; that errant ball that just seems to not want to play with the others. :wink:

I usually write it off to a flinch, a bad shot or trigger jerk etc. However, two things bother me; first the ball is usually way of the mark, then compared to the rest of the group which is a nice tight cluster and second I will get one of these perhaps every 8 to 12 shots.

Now it is true that I am shooting balls as cast, with powder poured from a measure so there will be some variation; however I use a snug patched ball combination (sprew down) that would be a difficult thumb press. The spent patching is fine. I wipe the bore every 5 shots or so.

This happens with both my 20 and 28 ga. smoothies.

I just wondered if anyone else has notice this or if it is just me. :hmm:

 

[Black Hand]

You may have a void in the ball.
It is my understanding that these can occur in cast balls. You could weigh your balls after casting and cull the ones that are "off" in weight.

 

[Many Klatch]

Smoothbores are sensitive to voids or wrinkles in the cast ball. The larger the caliber the easier it is to get a void in a cast ball. Voids happen when the lead cools and contracts in the mold. If there isn't a pool of molten lead sitting on top of the mold to fill the middle of the cooling ball then you wind up with a void. I make it a point, when casting ball for my Bess or any other large caliber to keep pouring lead until I have a puddle standing on top of the mold. This is one reason why I use a dipper to pour the lead instead of a bottom pour spout.

If you see a tiny black spot in the sprue when you cut off the excess lead, then you have a void.

Many Klatch

 

[Britsmoothy]

I often wonder just what all that pressure does to a sprue!

Have you tried sprue up?

Brits.

 

[FishDFly]

I was taught to load with sprue up, thus you know that the sprue is not canted to one side or the other. I weigh all my balls for line matches.

I was loaned a 62 cal smooth bore pistol at the WNS so I could shoot the Pedersoli pistol match.

The owner had an interesting loading comination:

measured powder
2 shot cards
1 cushion wad, greased
patched round ball

Since I have all the things needed for my 56 SB, I am going to give his combination a try, especially at a 100 yards. One hundred yards separates the men from the boys in SB matches.

Sometimes I think SB are just evil guns, especially at 100 yds.

 

[Renegade Dan]

Richard said:
Sometimes I think SB are just evil guns, especially at 100 yds.[/quote]
:stir: I will have to agree with that. :wink:

 

[Golfswithwolves]

Remember the hypothesis of the demon riding on the lead ball: In the case of smoothbores he is more able to hang on and cause evil results, whereas with a rifled gun the ball spins and throws him off. :hmm:

 

[Britsmoothy]

:haha:

My Peder'double has to have a wad under the patched ball!

B.

 

[FishDFly]

Thanks, now I understand what my problem has been.

 

[Stumpkiller]

How far are you shooting Grandpa Ron? My bess was great out to 60 yards and then threw knuckle balls that went every which way. My current fowler isn't as bad but falls apart noticably after 60 yards as well - compounded by a lack of a rear sight certainly.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

I usually shoot fifty yards, off hand. But I have also seen this off the bench to a lesser extent. Just some balls are about two or three time farther out than the rest of the group.

I will try re-checking the ball weight. Like most I do remove the badly wrinkled and those with air holes in the sprew. My current batch of .526 cal. balls weigh about 218 grains. In the past I have found that the majority of the balls fall within plus or minus 1 grain. Many of them are plus or minus ½ grain.

If I might elaborate a bit; some of you folks who have been around while can appreceate this, I have been shooting flint rifle since the 1970’s and after a while you find your comfort zone with your favorite rifle and the world is good. :grin: Then I built a 20 ga. trade gun for reenacting. It was fun but I did not shoot it much. I thought large groups were the norm, after all it was a smoothbore, no set triggers, not rear sight. :wink: I was wrong of course, there was some serious shooting being done with these guns and about two years ago I join the fray.

I tried numerous wads and patched and unpatched balls combination when I first started shooting smoothbores, it seemed like everybody had their own special recipe. Finally I decided there were too many variables so I stuck with the plain patched round ball and practice, practice, practice.

Naturally with practice your shooting improves and that is when I started to notice the above mentioned flyers. It may be time to try the card and cushion wad, patch ball combination again.

 

[Maven]

"It may be time to try the card and cushion wad, patch ball combination again."

That's an excellent idea, Ron. I think I'll revisit the felt wad + patched RB in my 20ga. smoothie too, since it seems to work well in my .56cal. T/C smoothbore (smooth rifle).

 

[Birdwatcher]

A visual demonstration; this is actually a FIVE shot standing offhand group at fifty yards. 20 gauge (0.62 cal.), .600 cast lead ball, ).010 pre-lubed OxYoke patch, 80 gr. FFg.

I dont recall if the flyer was even on paper. Not sure if I was to blame or not.

Didn't weigh the balls, I do load 'em sprue up. I got 'em from ToTW, I didn't weigh them first, I dunno if ToTW does either.

Birdwatcher

 

[satwel]

My experiences are similar to yours. I'd shot flintlock rifles since the 70's then decided to build a 20 ga smoothbore. I started out using cushion wads and cards but shots were all over the place. Then I went to just a patched ball and my groups shrank dramatically. I also had to change my expectations about how consistently a smoothbore will place a ball on a target. I once fired a 5 shot group at 50 yds offhand that I could cover with my hand. Another time I had 3 shots in a cloverleaf. But I have never been able to reproduce that performance. It bugged me that after I applied everything I learned from shooting rifles to the smoothbore that I couldn't achieve the same degree of reproducibility. But it isn't transferable. That's the nature of smoothbores. Sometimes, in spite of everything we do to minimize variability, like weighing balls or loading sprue up, the ball just takes off on its own non-linear path like a Tim Wakefield knuckleball. That's why the smoothbore targets are a lot bigger than rifle targets. I enjoy shooting my smoothie as much as my rifles and I accept that they have different capabilities.

 

[Model19]

Nice shooting Birdwatcher. Having competed in NRA Highpower matches before, I really like seeing offhand shots that are touching. And flyers are never your fault, always blame the equipment :haha:

 

[hanshi]

My .62 smoothie will stay inside a pie plate at 50 yards; I've never fired it past that distance. At 25 yards it looks really good but those balls lose their shine between 25 and 50 yds.

 

[Mzzlldrinpa]

This is an interesting thread. I've been shooting SB for a few years and have done well with it. I have always used patched round ball. At 25yds in can gave 5 shots touching on a pretty regular basis. At 50yds my group expands. Sometimes to the point I can't keep 5 on paper. I have never tried using wads with round ball. Does felt or cardboard wad help?

 

[Grandpa Ron]

It has been my experience not to be too quick to blame the equipment. Right now I am working on my hold since there is no rear sight.

That five shot group is impressive and you would probably walk away with all the prizes at the muzzleloading Nationals.

I have decided on my next trip to the range to trade off between my .54 cal. longrifle and my 54 cal smoothie. If there is little or no difference in the group; Then we know where the fault lies. :hmm:

 

[FishDFly]

It has been my experience not to be too quick to blame the equipment. Right now I am working on my hold since there is no rear sight.



I normally do not blame equipment nor chase differences in loading methods and procedures.

I can most times hold my own in line matches in SB at 25 and 50 yards. When going to 100 yards, I am close to winning or cannot hit the durn target, I need to reach the next level to be able to win state matches. I am open to all thoughts.