The Future of Hunting

[Hoyt]

I've been arguing this argument for more than several yrs now and always I've been in the minority..until now and now is what I have been predicting. You don't see it here on traditional forums, but on deer hunting forums where they hunt with modern firearms the hunting part of deer hunting has been gradually giving way to more or less "lets make this hunting thing as easy and comfortable as possible and while we're at it lets manipulate the whitetails genetics..stuff um full of every kind of antler growing protein and while we are at it..lets let them walk around not hunted for several yrs. until their antlers get just so..then when he's just right..we'll slaughter him and put his head on the wall. We'll do our shooting from climate controlled shooting houses and have our trophies come to the sound of our feeders going off. We can converse back and forth on our cell phones or walkie talkies..just to kill some boring time in case the feeder doesn't activate on time.
The above goes on every yr. and is the norm for a growing population of hunters. They see absolute nothing wrong with it. They don't have a clue what hunting actually is. In my opinion the biggest culprit is hunting shows..or more accurately shooting shows. They never show any hunting if there is any it's done by the deer owners.
My basic argument has been...When you mix money, profit, killing and deer hunting there can only be one result..deer hunting will suffer. The almighty dollar and the greed for will ruin deer hunting as we know it.
I argued it when the pay to kill places would advertise their livestock with feeder mounted deer cam pictures of their hand raised trophy heads so they could raise the fee to the highest bidder as in the case of Georgia's Big Moe Buck. I think his slaughter went for $10,000. The "hunt" amounted to a guy walking out in a feed lot I mean food plot and Big Moe saw him and walked off into the woods. So the guy had to come back a little later and shoot him in the same field.
Now Texas is going to clone trophy bucks so they will have a good supply of these $10,000 trophies...and now the...you don't even have to leave your house trophy. I really did predict this exact thing about 3 yrs. ago..joy stick and all.
I guess all this is one of the main reasons I decided to get into flintlocks and do my hunting that way..all the other is just plain sickening.

 

[Tahquamenon]

:agree:

Over-commercialism is never a good thing and is just seems un-natural in an outdoor hunting or sporting environment.

The hunting "industry" is big business and big revenues.

The only plus side I see is with those big revenues, states will hopefully think before they ban or restrict hunting.

Some more liberal folks may care less about the hunting aspect, at least they care about the revenues that come from it.
Helps to keep liberal legistators from acting too hasty.

:imo:

 

[vradin]

:imo: Right way or wrong way to hunt is subjective. Pointy sticks to bows to flinters to percussion to cartridge to C4 in a feed plot. What's right for one may not be right for another, and I don't propose to judge anyone else's motivation for being in the woods hunting the wily beaste.

That out of the way, one thing I remind the anti-hunting crowd is that most of the recreational areas we can ALL enjoy year round is paid for by hunters. That's hunters of all types, not just traditional firearms or archers or the remote-controll using C4 toting robots.

So long as the money is coming into the state's coffers, it'll be that much more difficult to end the practice for everyone.

:m2c: vic

Oh, BTW- as far as I'm concerned hunting should be done from ground level, no shot from further than about 50 yards, and with smokepoles or bows without training wheels.

 

I'll have to admit thet "modern magnum inlines" crept into my thots as I read the posts above!! :cry:

YMHS
rollingb

 

[leslie]

There is just one flaw in this reasoning, the anti-hunter mob use pictures of the slaughter to fire up the masses so we get bans on trapping anything including gophers, using dogs to hunt cougars and so on.That has happened in Washington State.So now we pay State employees to kill troublesome cougars.We all break the law when we try to get rid of gophers and other pests.The financial impact didn't affect the outcome at all,phony emotion did.

 

Me too brother! Here in pa we have an early muzzleloader season for a week in oct. You can use any type of smokepole you want. Same with the bullets, and scopes are also legal. Now there's talk of closing it for good, the reason is, the dudes are doing things with their muzzleloaders you can't do with a 30-30 or 35Rem. :m2c:

 

I agree with you completely. The minute the money gods smell profit they turn whatever it is into a high class gawdy hooker.Look at football, or nascar racing, no team loyality, money, money, money. Once a deer or elk etc, has a dollar value, hunting is over.I hate those killing programs especially from texas, sitting in an above ground apartment, with a plastic, stainless magnum hell blaster. with a scope you could see the craters on the moon with. Dressed in camo, being told which deer to kill by the so called guide, (chauffer).Then he acts like he really accomplished something. He could of been dressed in a pink tutu,using a single shot 30-30 H&R, and accomplished the same thing. And this online hunting, here we are in a cyber cafe in NYC, dressed in camo,using our cabela's camo mouse pad, hunting frankenclone trophy bucks. YAHOO! ::

 

[big bore 75]

I AGREE 1000% JUST LOOKING AT ALL MY HUNTING manure AND HOW MUCH IT COSTED ME OVER THE YEARS ARGGGGHH :curse: :curse:, iT TOOK ME 25 YEARS TO FINALLY GET IT RIGHTAND I TOOK TWO WITH MUZZLELOADERS (THE REAL DEALS) AND ONE WITH A BOLT GUN, ONLY THIG DIFFERENT THAT I HAE BEEN DOING IS USEING THE WIND TO MY ADVANTAGE,AND GOOD OLD FASION VANILLA AND YOU KNOW WHAT MY FIRST EVER REAL BUCK WENT DOWN,HELL I EVEN SOLD ALL THAT CARBON CLOTHING manure RUBBER BOOTS AND WENT WITH GOOD OLD FASION LEATHER BOOTS AND CLIMBED 30 FT UP ,5 DEER IN THE FREEZER. MORE COMMONG THIS OCTOBER. BB75

 

[Tahquamenon]

Here in Michigan, "Trophy Farm Shooing Galleries" are finally coming under closer scrutiny and oversight from not only the Department of Natural Resources - Wildlife Conservation, but also the USDA.

This additional oversight is a result of chronic wasting disease (CDW). Which is a terrible problem on the frontier for Michigan.

These trophy farms rely on heavily baited environments or "Bait Piles" to "yard" deer into the killing zone of the heated condo's where the clients reside until it's time to shoot.

Michigan has thankfully outlawed these "Bait Piles" because it's that close feeding situation that promotes the spread of CWD. We have also banned the importation and exportation of Deer, Elk, Moose and many other species.

Several "Trophy Farms" have already shut down in Michigan not to mention gotten busted by the DNR by violation of the baiting regulations. The result is loss of operations license not just a flimsy fine, but huge fines and possible confiscation of properties and equipment.

I do not support these "unfair chase" trophy farms.

There are however some hunt clubs that simply offer an opportunity to hunt prime property and stay at a comfortable lodge. You still need a valid hunting liscense.
A limited guide situation. Not a guarantee to shoot something where the animal is all but tied up to a tree waiting to be shot. I have a few friends that operate this type of hunt club for Deer, Bear and Fowl. They enrich their habitat via natural food plots without any fencing. Nothing game-wise in foreign introduced. The opportunities are what the habitat provides, not what was imported.

:hmm:

 

[BLAHMAN]

Just to make things fair, I will make an honest attempt, when hunting this fall, to hunt as natural as possible.




I'm goin' neked with a sharp stick! :haha: :haha:

 

[hobbles]

Is makin animals die of fright legal in you state ??

 

Hoyt, good food for thought. I agree with most of what has been posted. The question is, "what can we do about it?". We can raise our children in what we believe to be an ethical way to hunt, make the attempt to convince and convert others, (most likely unsuccessfully), and continue our way of hunting. I'm not talking about just muzzleloaders or bows, but hunting in general and much of what you alluded to regarding the selective breeding of deer and using your land as a feed lot for them.


It's a sad situation but, "money talks and BS walks" and the voice of the majority carries much weight....and many dollars.

As shooters and hunters who use old rifles we have a different mindset than the majority. Obviously we're already in the minority which is probably one reason we chose to hunt/shoot with these types of firearms in the first place. As everyone knows it requires some effort to learn to use our choice of firearms, or traditional bows, and the fact is most folks simply don't want to put forth that effort. The more like a modern rifle they can make a muzzleloader the more the masses are going to like it. It's the same with bows, the easier they can be made to shoot the better the masses are going to like it. What's the popular phrase..."instant gratification". Much of modern life is the same, make it easy.

Hunting has been following the same trend for 30 years or more, sadly. All too many so called hunters can't read sign, track wounded or unwounded game, knows the difference between turkey scratching or squirrel digging, tell one bird call from another or even identify the birds and don't know a dogwood from a white oak. Why.....because it takes time and effort to learn all those things. Most folks I know who hunt with traditional muzzleloaders have an interest in acquiring that knowledge and take the time to learn at least some of it. Knowing the difference between the call of a blue jay and a belted kingfisher might not help you put meat on the table, (both are tattletales), but it enhances the experience of being in the woods while you're hunting.

I don't like what I see nor do I know what to do about it....perhaps I want "instant gratification" by having the clock turned back.

I rambled again.....sorry...

Vic

 

Just to make things fair, I will make an honest attempt, when hunting this fall, to hunt as natural as possible.




I'm goin' neked with a sharp stick! :haha: :haha:

..... so,.. "whats" the sharp stick for????? :: (them critters will "die laugh'n" when they see ya!!) :crackup: :crackup:

YMHS
rollingb

 

[BLAHMAN]

Just to make things fair, I will make an honest attempt, when hunting this fall, to hunt as natural as possible.




I'm goin' neked with a sharp stick! :haha: :haha:

..... so,.. "whats" the sharp stick for????? :: (them critters will "die laugh'n" when they see ya!!) :crackup: :crackup:

YMHS
rollingb

So I don't slip in the mud????? :haha:

 

Just to make things fair, I will make an honest attempt, when hunting this fall, to hunt as natural as possible.




I'm goin' neked with a sharp stick! :haha: :haha:

..... so,.. "whats" the sharp stick for????? :: (them critters will "die laugh'n" when they see ya!!) :crackup: :crackup:

YMHS
rollingb

So I don't slip in the mud????? :haha:

Good think'n :thumbsup:,..... and I'm sure you'll use an "OHSA approved" sharp stick for yore "hunt of a lifetime"!! (you know, the one with the liddle blunt "rubber tip" onnit!! :redthumb: :

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Hoyt]

Vic..you talk about all the good things in hunting like reading sign and letting the woods tell you what's happened and is going on. I was on another forum and they have hunting lease section where people can find leases. I was reading an add for one in Ga. and one of the rules was you weren't allowed to walk in the woods. I swear that's the truth. It was a trophy lease..bout $3000.00 a yr. and they had shooting houses built in the food plots. The lease rules explained how walking in the woods spooked the deer and was not allowed.
I guess next thing will be underground tunnels leading to the shooting houses.
Times are just changing and moving too fast..and when it comes to hunting and enjoying the outdoors that's not a good thing.
In my opinion..unfortunately for the younger hunters and the ones to follow them, there's not much that can be done.
Most people who have hunted as long as us and as a way of life don't hunt anymore. The majority of hunters now, just know it as the way it is...One's view on hunting and especially the killing of game...is something that changes as he matures in life. That's the sad part and the main problem....not having more older people still heavily involved in hunting. It's not that they are smarter....but they can look and see a much bigger picture of why things are, how they got to be, and what it was before. They may not live so much in the moment.....but in time in general. You might call it having wisdom or experience only acquired with age.....but whatever you call it when in doubt or wondering about situations with possible bad consequences, it can be a big help. The problem is, most of todays hunters haven't been around long enough to acquire it and unfortunately aren't yet wise enough to know it.
In other words..it's like beat'n a dead horse..I was the same way coming up..knew it all.

 

[BLAHMAN]

Ya know, rollingb, that comment about critters laughin'? I'm beginin' to wonder why Mrs. Blahman laughs so loud when I suggest a night of wild passion! :hmm: :haha: :haha:



No wonder she wants the lights kept off! :shake:

 

[jim gray]

I guess the ultimate question is what can anyone do about it. One person alone or even groups of people acting individually won't have a great impact on the situation. Is there any organization that promotes ethical hunting and the actual learning of hunting skills?

It's a sad fact that you can't legislate ethics. People will stretch and abuse the laws that regulate hunting as long far as they possibly can, and it seems that there is nothing that we can do about it.

 

[Hoyt]

Far as the cloning and computerized killing..I think both should be illegal. Seems like the computer thing would put the shooter out of local game wardens reach and couldn't be monitored. The cloning could lead to who knows what. The point is.. it is.. time to draw the line..
How people hunt is their business long as legal..I may not like it..but it's really none of my business. I just hate to see young hunters missing out on of what makes hunting what it is..not only that but the instant gratification, trophy bucks everywhere..will be the demise of hunting. It will become boring and not even worth what little effort that will be required...not to mention the big dollars it's heading towards.

 

When Dad was taking me hunting, 40+ years ago now, he was always showing me things in the woods and explaining what they were or why they were, as he knew them. He identified for me trees, brush, berries, grasses, birds and their calls and a host of other things that are engraved in my memory such as what is and isn't good to eat. All this while we were hunting, and we brought home game too. It was important to Dad that I knew those things about the woods and it piqued an interest in me that I carry with me today. I wanted to know more, still do. I can identify more plants, trees, birds and their calls and what critterrs eat what than Dad now but he's responsible for instilling in me the desire to want to learn. He still learns about the woods and will surprise me quite often by knowing a plant or tree that I don't. I'm still learning from him and he's 76 now. As that was the way he taught me to hunt I taught my boys the same way. We're all different but I can't imagine being in the woods and not wanting to know what tree it is I'm leaning against. When I could afford out of state hunts a great deal of the fun was learning the flora and fauna of the area I was hunting. I got more than a few quizzical looks from guides from the questions I asked.

All of that is to say that those things aren't being taught to the vast majority of young hunters because their mentors don't know them and I don't believe they want to know. I think that's sad.

Hoyt, I know what you're saying. I suppose our satisfaction has to come from the fact that we are hunters in the old style, when you hunted and learned the ways of the woods, (or mountains, plains, swamps or wherever you are) not just hunted to kill. I derive more pleasure outsmarting game or fish than I ever did from just "getting a deer". Just knowing that I can take it if I want has become a big part of the game for me. As you so succintly said, it's that "wisdom or experience only acquired with age". Hopefully Mother Nature and Father Time will have the same effect on succeeding generations.

I believe it was Ortega 'y Gasset who said, "I don't hunt to kill, I kill to have hunted".

Vic